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Posted In: ODP
Here’s to hoping that September is the month to remember wrt court cases finally ending!!!
Well, I’ve spent the whole day today pretty much on AllKPop, beating back wave after wave of ill-informed kiddies who “just want the five back together again.” Lots more had questions, to wit; “what’s going on??” “You mean the lawsuit still hasn’t been settled??” and that old stand-by “When the lawsuit is settled, will JYJ go back to SM and reform with Homin!??”
Oh, it’s been an interesting day, but I just finally caved in to the infrequent but persistent comment that we here on JYJ3 stay in our own little backyard and we don’t have a stinking clue as to what people say about us or what’s really going on out there in the real world of K-Pop. Well, after this morning’s news about the failed arbitration meeting, I spent the whole day out there and my conclusion is: nothing much is going on out there. The uninformed are staying uninformed. The trouble-makers are being rude and calling people names. The people who know about what’s happening are posting as much and there are many who agree with them. It’s a real mixed bag. More and more the tide seems to be turning in JYJ’s favor. If we can just manage to convince them that JYJ is NOT going back to SM, then I think we’d get somewhere — if we could just put the rumor to rest once and for all that a reunion is just around the corner.
Has anyone else ventured into the dark and threatening forest of AllKPop posters? What did you think?
Sorry, I’ve been sick enough this week without wading through cesspools. I spent my lucid hours productively occupied: assisted on subbing Dr. Jin E21 over at DSS so feel more than satisfied with my week w/o having allowed myself to be coated with slime.
I hope that your hair and extremities did not rot off from the flesh-eating bacteria you were exposed to in that forest? I like my @Lili in one piece! LOL!
ya..i go there to just have fun to read comment..i think many people are on jyj side this time..only a few retarded person who think they know averything still like to troll..i think everyone just fed up to this lawsuit drama..sm have lost the case long time before but still butthart to bully jyj..i hope court will make desicion quickly..i dont care if jyj wins or not(supossely wins) but i just want everyobody can move on..jyj now in different league than othes kpop act…and i support them whole heart..they are going international and nobody can stop them right now..not even korean citizent!!!
I’ve gotten to the point where I refuse to visit sites like that because reading the comments (and a lot of the articles themselves) makes me so angry. I also won’t do twitter searches anymore because every other tweet just makes me angry. I can’t stand how ignorant and stubborn some people are. And I know I probably shouldn’t let it get to me but it seriously just bothers me. One of the many things I love about JYJ3: I can read all the recent JYJ info in an environment that I feel comfortable in. (Thank you admins for everything you do in supporting JYJ, bringing JYJ fans together, and keeping us informed!)
@ellyellyelephant
“I’ve gotten to the point where I refuse to visit sites like that because reading the comments (and a lot of the articles themselves) makes me so angry.”
Oh, I hear you. I’ve felt the exact same way for a long time now. I just stopped ever even going there for months at a time because I’d make one comment (fact driven – no personal attacks) and get flamed mercilessly with these one-liners…”You SUCK!” and the like. But yesterday, reading that article about the continuance of the trial that I saw originated on AllKPop, I just decided to suck it up and wander over and see what they were saying about it. I don’t want to live in a happy vacuum, as some people accuse me/us of. As I related it was a kind of a mixed bag of posts, but there were LOTS of people who were damn mad at SM for continuing to draw this thing out. Then there were people who just literally knew NOTHING about anything. lol To them I tried my best to explain what has happened in the simplest possible terms. I want to believe that some read what I wrote and got some better understanding of the facts.
@lilibaiyu
“Then there were people who just literally knew NOTHING about anything. lol To them I tried my best to explain what has happened in the simplest possible terms. I want to believe that some read what I wrote and got some better understanding of the facts.”
I’m glad you provided the facts to those people who knew nothing^^ I do hope they took your words to heart, and I hope they are better able to distinguish between what are facts and what are not
@ellyellyelephant
” I do hope they took your words to heart, and I hope they are better able to distinguish between what are facts and what are not”
Let’s hope, but let’s not hold our breath, huh? lol
OH! And here’s a link to a blog that I just was directed to by another poster on JYJ3 that I thought I’d put in a few places. It’s a much better, much more detailed version of the events at court yesterday. Check it out. Biggest news as far as I’m concerned is that it says there will be a VERDICT on 9/10 unless there is an out of court settlement between now and then. Now THAT is news and welcome news at that!
http://dedicatee.wordpress.com/
@ellyellyelephant, @lilibaiyu
To quote Malcolm X: “If you don’t stand for something, you will fall for anything.”
It’s easy enough for some to not care what an issue is all about. For some, they are intellectually lazy.
You don’t have to agree with the opinions of others, but at least know what the facts are, and express your opinion based on those facts. This is simply too much work. Therefore, they want to go on supposition of rumor, misinformation, you name it.
The really sad part? The more information there is, the less people try to know what that information is. One doesn’t have to know it all, but try to find some of it. This reminds me of: “There are none so blind as those who will not see.”
Couple this with the group think mentality of the cultism of kpop and voila! As I went through more of the comment section, it highlighted what state the kpop mindset is in. They will find a way to rationalize their support of SM, because afterall, SM couldn’t be that bad if everyone is staying. Also, those who leave still speak highly of LSM. I’ll lay odds, none of them even know what the Stockholm Syndrome is.
All this manipulation by LSM/SME is targeted based on this premise. They KNOW what they have created and KNOW how to work it. It’s one thing to continue to use this tool, but sometimes tools have a way of not working. Sometimes they break or malfunction, it’s inevitable.
@BAF
“They will find a way to rationalize their support of SM, because afterall, SM couldn’t be that bad if everyone is staying. Also, those who leave still speak highly of LSM. I’ll lay odds, none of them even know what the Stockholm Syndrome is.”
I think some of it too is that there is total spoiled selfishness in some fans. They just want what they want, no matter what toll it takes on the individual members. Also, I detected in some of the people staunchly defending SM a fear – an unspoken fear that most likely SM IS in the wrong, they’ll suffer a great fall and then all their oppas in their other favorite SM groups will somehow be taken away from them. Again, pure selfishness. Let JYJ be hung out to dry so fans can still ooo and ahhh over SuJu and Homin. MAKE JYJ come back to SM so they can see the five together on stage again. Never mind that no one involved wants it, never mind that it would probably destroy the members of JYJ to go back, MAKE THEM go back because we want to see the five singing and dancing together, like before. Turn back time, in other words, because we want it that way.
Sorry, kids. Time to wake up.
Hmmm, hmmm. That selfishness is part of a generation that has grown up with immediate gratification. They are so used to having what they want, when they want, they never stop and think how did all this happen? Few people in their lives have said the word ‘no’ to them. This seems to be a foreign concept.
But again, it highlights how cultist this entire kpop industry is. When they drink the kool-aid, they don’t even have what it takes to ask for their own particular flavor.
The thought never occurs to them, ONE of the possible MAJOR reasons why JYJ will never go back to SM, is that the guys are probably investors/part owners of CJeS. I’m willing to make bank on this. Why go back when you’ve got your own? When you have your own, no need to be a part of anyone else’s. I’m all for self-reliance.
Yes, the state of denial can be a real flash point. What IF…SME is what everyone says it is? If you would take the time to read what the court says about the clauses in the contract, and how jubjugating it is, how can you defend these creeps? The court did not make up this stuff, it was in writing!
I did sign up to comment, maybe one day I’ll suck it up and go in just to piss somebody off one day.
@BAF
“I did sign up to comment, maybe one day I’ll suck it up and go in just to piss somebody off one day. ”
lolol Oh, you haven’t LIVED until someone on AllKPop has told you “YOU SUCK!!”
@lilibaiyu
“lolol Oh, you haven’t LIVED until someone on AllKPop has told you “YOU SUCK!!””
Oh my, can’t wait!
@Mummy-hen @lilibaiyu
“SM couldn’t be that bad if everyone is staying. Also, those who leave still speak highly of LSM. I’ll lay odds, none of them even know what the Stockholm Syndrome is.”
I think that a big reason why those idols who do leave SM & continue to speak highly of LSM is because they know how much power he wields in the kpop industry, & that if they do say anything bad about him, he’ll go all out to ruin any career they try to forge in music/entertainment for ever after.
@Sapphire
” I think that a big reason why those idols who do leave SM & continue to speak highly of LSM is because they know how much power he wields in the kpop industry, & that if they do say anything bad about him, he’ll go all out to ruin any career they try to forge in music/entertainment for ever after.”
Of course. Could there be any doubt? I think we’ve all seen the extent of this man’s power to ruin people who cross him. it is scary, it is real and no one in their right mind would take that power lightly. Most would much rather go through the motions of praising him while I’m sure secretly thanking God LSM decided he had no further use for them and they are OUT.
JYJ’s case is exceptionally scary because I really think that LSM decided that he HAD to keep them all no matter what, so when they left and sued, his vendetta to ruin them became intensely personal and especially vicious. This is of course one of the problems, it is why the case has taken so long. LSM can not BELIEVE that he is not going to win. And it’s not because he believes he’s in the right – oh, no, not at all. It’s because he’s HIM, he’s LSM!
@lilibaiyu
“Has anyone else ventured into the dark and threatening forest of AllKPop posters?”
Er no, sorry. I’m not that masochistic. But I salute your bravery (or masochism!) for continually trying to educate the wilfully ignorant masses.
@springbok7
I hope you’re feeling better now. Is it migraine again? *huggles*
yeah it was. hubby made the mistake of using a new cleaner on the stove last sunday and the damn thing was “lightly scented with lavender” which usually i wouldn’t mind but i’m guessing my definition of ‘lightly’ and the manufacturer’s aren’t quite the same…. damn stuff reeked, made the whole kitchen reek, and gave me one hell of a headache. sigh.
btw, i sent you a series of tweets…..
hope you enjoy them LOL! sorry, wasn’t ambitious enough to do the side-by-side that those other fans did, but at least i convinced hubby to take the pictures in the first place… and he STILL doesn’t know the real reason, I just told him they were for you HAHAHAH!
@springbok7
So I’m kinda clueless! Are the places you photographed in JYJ’s Mahalo photobook? I’ve been studiously avoiding all the teasers until my copy comes. Johnny Depp would die if he woke up one day looking like that Captain Jack!!!
LOL you have? I didn’t have that much willpower, specially not when I knew they came here LOL!
the captain jack photo and the surfboard photo and the mural photo are all places that they took pictures. And the parking lot that I took a picture of is where one of them was jumping up in the air LOL!
@Sapphire
“Er no, sorry. I’m not that masochistic.”
lol I know. Usually, I’m not either. And if the comments had been like they usually are there I would have just closed the window and said “Not Today!” But there were a LOT of people firmly in the JYJ camp posting yesterday and that seemed mostly OK with everybody. There really is slowly getting to be a change in people’s ideas of what’s going to happen and what isn’t. I was just moved to provide some facts here and there for people to read and think about. There’s SO LITTLE actual information that is worth anything there, amid all the thousands of comments–it’s kind of frightening really. Talk about living in a reality vacuum!
I do, and I have no idea why. After reading AllKPop, I leave angry, frustrated and feeling a little dirty. There was one insane clown troll that claimed JJ was his bias, but runs around dogging JYJ and Junsu and Yoochun. That one needs some mental therapy.
But I do think it’s important to try to keep up with what’s going on in the Kpop world and what Kpop fans are thinking about certain situations, even though I’m no fan of most of the music that litters the pages of AllKPop. I’ve been trying to keep up on the T-ara situation and I was impressed that some of the articles were actually calling the management company on its lies and contradictions (ie claiming that four members Twitter were hacked simultaneously to justify an ill received Twitter conversation) but then I saw who the management company was and that pissed me off. So everyone is fair game unless you are the big three of management companies? The day that I read an article calling SM out on the BS they’ve been churning out is the day I’ll gain a modicum of respect for that site.
But, I do have to say, comparatively speaking, the commenters on the most recent JYJ article were actually seeing the light in the whole situation. Before, the standard would be eyes closed, ears closed, mouth open spouting SM propaganda. And I have to remind myself that some of them may actually be young teenagers, quick with the response but slow to think things out for themselves. They’ll learn, someday.
@mkverse
“The day that I read an article calling SM out on the BS they’ve been churning out is the day I’ll gain a modicum of respect for that site. But, I do have to say, comparatively speaking, the commenters on the most recent JYJ article were actually seeing the light in the whole situation.”
Wow, do I ever agree with you about your assessment of AKP! That was so close to my own perception of what was going on there until fairly recently.
You said “Before, the standard would be eyes closed, ears closed, mouth open spouting SM propaganda.”
Exactly! And the second you would try to ever-so politely disagree, all hell would rain down on your head!
I finally also noticed the extreme SM bias of the articles there as well. So I more or less formed the opinion that somebody who ran the site was in SM’s back pocket. That’s just the way it seemed to me. But I gotta say, not any more, or at least not nearly as much and the posters there are starting to finally get a few of the bullet points as well, to wit: 1. Dudes. NO reunion 2. Hate ta tell ya – SM’s gonna lose 3. Hard cheese and stuff, but SM deserves to lose. They’re assholes and thieves 4. There’s just gonna have to be 2 groups from now on and and that’s gonna have to be OK with everyone.
Slowly but surely we carve in-roads in the solid bedrock located between the ears of the people on AKP.
@lilibaiyu @mkverse
As torturous as it is waiting for a final verdict, & let’s be real here, we all know even that final verdict in JYJ’s favor isn’t going to induce the likes of KBS & co to put JYJ on their music & variety shows or make SM stop the blocking
But there have been a lot of upsides to the continual BS & delay of SM – more of their dirty deeds are coming to light, more mindless SM fans are being forced to see & accept the unpalatable truth of the company & their actions, & more peeps are realising that JYJ are in the right, & have been all along. & as painful as the blocking has been for JYJ, it is forcing them to grow & explore new avenues & possibilities, & opening up opportunities that they may not have considered let alone tried before. Junsu admitted that knowing his MV for Tarantallegra wouldn’t get airplay on any of the S Korean music shows gave him the freedom to do exactly what he wanted, & to push the boundaries without having to worry that his work would get censored. The blocking isn’t a good thing by any means, but contrary to SM’s intent, a lot of good for JYJ has come, & is continuing to come from it. Mainly because of the way JYJ is handling the situation obviously, but I bet it infuriates LSM no end that no matter what he throws at Jaejoong, Chunnie & Junsu, they just keep on standing tall & doing what they do best – & succeeding in the process! ^____________^
@Sapphie
“The blocking isn’t a good thing by any means, but contrary to SM’s intent, a lot of good for JYJ has come, & is continuing to come from it. Mainly because of the way JYJ is handling the situation obviously, but I bet it infuriates LSM no end that no matter what he throws at Jaejoong, Chunnie & Junsu, they just keep on standing tall & doing what they do best – & succeeding in the process! ^____________^”
This is your ‘unintended consequences’. What LSM failed to take in account is this. The members of JYJ, being the sharp knives they are, absorbed while they were learning, like nobody’s business. Thank Teacher for all your hardwork. The guys then took those skill sets with them and decided, what the heck! Let’s take what we’ve learned and put it to good use. This they have done.
So yes, those ‘training’ and ‘life’ lessons they learned at the ‘father’s’ knee, are really paying off. I am so tempted to go…nah, nah, nah, nah.
YES! ^_____________^
@Sapphire
”
“As torturous as it is waiting for a final verdict, & let’s be real here, we all know even that final verdict in JYJ’s favor isn’t going to induce the likes of KBS & co to put JYJ on their music & variety shows or make SM stop the blocking
A genuinely inspirational post from Sapphire, AS USUAL, I might add. I am ever so slightly more hopeful about the aftermath of this initial verdict and here’s why: it’s the perfect time to really lay heavily on the fandom that SM is WRONG and they are being terribly wrong and unfair in the JYJ affair. Ultimately, somewhere down the road, they can NOT win this. They are asking a lot of the fandom to continue to put up with these shenanigans, let alone support them and for those who clamor for it, to not be able to see JYJ on TV. I think public opinion and the mass disapproval of the fans may be a mitigating factor in LSM’s willingness to go on.
His stockholders, for instance, must be livid. As more and more ugly details surface, as more dirty tricks and dirty laundry is aired, stock analysts will have to take a hard look at the future viability of SM stock. It just could be enough. Whatever SM pays is already in the contingency account as has already been reported. They HAVE the money – it’s there. I don’t know – it could happen. I hope it does.
Sapphire made one other comment that I thought was especially cogent: that whatever SM and the media in SK have done to ban and block JYJ, they seemingly have taken lemons and made lemonade and made the strictures actually WORK for them in all sorts of truly novel and interesting ways. In a way, SM has made this group far more resilient and interesting, far more watchable than any other pop entity in SK.
The moral: Never underestimate the power of the cause celebre’.
@lilibaiyu
“Slowly but surely!” I think that should become our motto!
@Sapphie
There you go again, always seeing the upside!
But you are right, I have been totally impressed with JYJ and CJeS for their fantastic work arounds for these obstacles and while I’m not one to ever think much of management companies, I’m very thankful that JYJ is working with a company that seems to treat their artists as equals and not just focused on how much money they can squeeze out of them.
@lilibaiyu
“His stockholders, for instance, must be livid. As more and more ugly details surface, as more dirty tricks and dirty laundry is aired, stock analysts will have to take a hard look at the future viability of SM stock. It just could be enough. Whatever SM pays is already in the contingency account as has already been reported. They HAVE the money – it’s there. I don’t know – it could happen. I hope it does.”
This will probably be the one thing that could force LSM to re-evaluate the childish vendetta he has going against JYJ. Why his CEO isn’t banging this into his skull I have no idea. Given so many pension funds have been invested in SM, maybe stock analysts are assuming (or know) that the S Korean govt will bail SM out if need be. I really hope not. While I wish no ill to all those whose pension funds have been invested with SM, I think it’s going to take major financial losses before someone can persuade LSM to drops his Destroy-JYJ-irrespective-of-the-cost-to-SM Entertainment.
Thankyou @lili & @mkverse for the kind words
@Sapphire
“Given so many pension funds have been invested in SM, maybe stock analysts are assuming (or know) that the S Korean govt will bail SM out if need be. I really hope not. While I wish no ill to all those whose pension funds have been invested with SM, I think it’s going to take major financial losses before someone can persuade LSM to drops his Destroy-JYJ-irrespective-of-the-cost-to-SM Entertainment.”
A scandal of the magnitude of the current government bank-rolling a con man and getting bilked of millions to promote a phony “Korean Wave!” sounds pretty serious to me. THEN add to that what SM has done to JYJ over the last 3 years, the contracts they routinely asked the parents of under-age kids to sign, the working conditions, etc and you’ve got something big. If they can ignore THIS much corruption in their midst, they I’d have to say that the entire population has been drugged.
I have to laugh though. SK society thinks it’s a “scandal” when an idol singer dates an actress. Talk about the elephant in the living room that nobody mentions!
i know a guy who post article in akp from another forum, and he said that akp is mostly posting what’s trending on k-news site. there’re many articles, from the important to the non sensical ones, and akp posted them all, only if they’re trending, regardless of the credibility. and that’s basically the behavior of k-news sites too. only recently that akp try to write articles by themselves, and it’s not interesting for people imo. therefore, if many people are uninformed with the issues since akp didn’t post the whole issue, it’s probably what happened in korea too.
that’s why, personally, if i’m interested in an issue (like t-ara recent issue for example), i’d rather get the sources from reputable fansites/fanforum rather than from akp. the comments are from people who follow them since before and not just someone who read malicious rumors recently. when i first heard of hangeng and jyj sued sm, i too thought ignorantly (like someone in akp), “and why would they want to sign contract on the first place?” but as i read the cases from fansites like jyjfiles or jyj3 or fuckyeahhangeng, i finally understood why they sued sm.
in this case, if those people in akp really interested in the guys, they’re most likely will be directed by google to jyjfiles or jyj3, less probability that they’d ended up in homin or ot5 sites. and if they’d decided to stand in sm’s side, then it’s their decision, nothing we can change. and if they’re still trolling, still being ignorant and uninformed, then they’ll most likely stay like that. it’s not like they really care about jyj.
regardless, i applaud you guys who still care to share the whole information regarding jyj’s case, because there’s probably one or two who still clueless and your comments are really useful. it’d be easier if you also link to the sources like jyjfiles and jyj3.
this is a reply to @lilibaiyu
@noiha
that’s why, personally, if i’m interested in an issue (like t-ara recent issue for example), i’d rather get the sources from reputable fansites/fanforum rather than from akp. ”
Yes, I agree with you – no way I would want to rely on sites like AllKPop for information on JYJ’s case. They’ve had so little actual information! It seemed to me like they were a big giant site where kids could go and be rude and diss anyone and everyone! I just stopped ever going there. But then as you said, I had the urge to inject some basic facts that I’ve come across while reading and posting to JYJFiles and JYJ3. There are a LOT of fans who identify as OT5 who are just FED UP with SM’s nonsense all of a sudden. I thought the timing might be right for a little truth telling over there.
And btw, there were 2 great JYJ3 articles that were linked yesterday. If anyone actually took the time to read one or both, eyes would be opened. Who knows if anyone did. I quoted Fox Mulder from the old “X-Files” show – “The Truth Is Out There.”
Guys, the september 13th will be the verdict announcement day, insyaAllah..pray for justice to prevail..
Source:dedicatee.wordpress.com
she posted the article 13hours ago, but I don’t know how how to tip the jyj3 admin.
http://dedicatee.wordpress.com/2012/08/11/news-jyj-and-sm-failed-to-agree-on-arbitration-of-exclusive-contract-and-return-to-the-courts-decision-in-sep/
*sigh* The never-ending story just keeps on keeping on. Someone needs to tell SM that when you’re dead, lie down already.
@ai uta
THANKS, Ai Uta, for posting this. A far better account than yesterday’s, FULL of welcome news! Yay!
http://dedicatee.wordpress.com/2012/08/11/news-jyj-and-sm-failed-to-agree-on-arbitration-of-exclusive-contract-and-return-to-the-courts-decision-in-sep/
Yes, I checked it out and there was additional information, especially more of the quotes, not “partial” ones. This is what will not make the rounds of the fandom. But one can hope.
Yoochun fanmeeting in Thailamd pre-sale : fully booked in 6 hours after opening
So he sold-out all 5.000 tickets on the first day? Daebak!
No. They sell HALF only today. Tomorrow, will sell the balance at another online site.
which I’m sure will be sold out too in short time
please update me on the progress of the other half tomorrow! 
so do I
I’m glad when seeking info of JYJ legal process, got the link jyjfiles & jyj3..feeling comforted in these sites..sometimes I read news fr allkpop & en.korea too (mostly en.korea) but umm be prepared when there’s unappropriate posts 
Apart fr the legal cases, JYJ win already. I believe it’s time matters tt more ppl give recognition for their perseverance, passion & humanity ^
I’ve just read an article on allkpop about airport incidents.http://www.allkpop.com/2012/08/op-ed-airports-are-not-concert-venues
I must agree on this. I feel that fans nowadays are getting more agressive in term of anything involving their idols. Recently, big bang’s arrival in beijing airport for their alive tour has gathered more than 7000 fans waiting for them at the airport. Big bang member daesung tweeted that if any accidents should happen, their concert might be cancelled according to the Chinese law system. Seeing this, I vaguely remember an incident back in 2010 I think. It appears that Junsu was on his way across the airport lobby and thousands of fans swarmed over him like ants and thank god that his bodyguards are brave enough to protect him from those fangirls. Here’s the link to that video,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA5-Rp5FVd8
Another incident was that of JYJ. It’s even worse cuz they were stuck there n were not able to move becuz of the crowd. Here’s the video.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugF0mu88AtQ
Another one,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckh2jUApGlo
So what do u guys think about this issue?
This is precisely why I don’t understand when some fans say the bodyguards are being too cautious, or too rough, and they complain that they didn’t allow them to take enough pictures or get close enough or get their autograph. It’s just ridiculous. When there is a large mass of fans, they are no longer fans, they become a mob. And mobs are very dangerous and hard to control. I think people who have never been in that situation cannot understand how quickly things can go very wrong. I don’t believe there’s any ill intent behind these fans, but they have to understand that bodyguards are there to not only keep their charges safe, but also to keep the entire situation in check.
hm… idk. i personally agree with the op about behaving in airport, but for not coming at all… well, i disagree. if the artists (or the management) revealed the arrival date themselves, it means they’re expecting fans to come. it’s rather good for publicity.
i remember running man 61 where there’re only fews came to airport because they didn’t know the schedule… rm members were kinda shocked at that because they knew china rm fanbase is large (the fans later gathered at the venues though). another occasion (rm 72) when fans went out of board, they walked with another passage instead so they can’t meet the fans. and i can see both rm members and fans are disappointed too with that. at the same time i blame fans and fanclubs for not managing themselves well, i also blamed the security team too for not able to manage the fans. in rm case, considering rm popularity in hongkong, i’d say it’s stupid to announce rm arrival in hongkong, complete with the guests and the venues, days before. so rather than blaming the fans, i blamed it mostly to the one who planned that.
one thing for sure, if they’re expecting the fans to come, the artists’ management should prepare a security team with fair number of personals. again, i’d take running man 61 as example, where there’re only few fans yet the security team is fully prepared (lol). it’d be better to prevent things like that. however, even if they’re NOT expecting the fans, they have to consider fans’ amount in that country etc etc, and still prepare themselves beforehand. if big bang members arrived one by one, in a secret, then if they don’t prepare anything i can understand. but they arrived together as a group, in freakin’ china, knowing they had large fanbase there. idk how bad the situation but i’d say it’s be stupid if they’re not preparing enough security team. sure they didn’t get payment to entertain people in airport, but it’s the artist’s management’s duty to protect their artists, and the artists taking care of their fans vice versa is like a moral duty.
yep it’s also necessary for the fans to ‘behave’, but most of times it’d be hard to maintain. i never met jyj in a 10 m range, so idk if i can keep myself to ‘behave’. lol.
this is a reply to @Jshs2a1
there’re many typos as well as grammar errors, sorry. -_-”
@Jshsa1: anyway, it’s seungri, not daesung. and he updated it from his blog, not twitter. ^^
… taeyang even announced their flight (his tweet: fly), so if no one comes to greet them — following the op’s advice that the oppa won’t miss the fans, he must be very upset.
Here’s a link to a blog that I just was directed to by another poster on JYJ3 that I thought I’d put in a few places. It’s a much better, much more detailed version of the events at court yesterday. Check it out. Biggest news as far as I’m concerned is that it says there will be a VERDICT on 9/10 unless there is an out of court settlement between now and then. Now THAT is news and welcome news at that!
http://dedicatee.wordpress.com/
““The court will set the date for its final ruling between Sep 6 and Sep 13. The court just said that it would like to suggest a mutual agreement if possible before its final decision on the case”, the lawyer added.”
Mr. Sejong attorney, please tell the court to STOP suggesting a mutual agreement. It is not possible. Simply give JYJ the final decision so everyone can move on to the next phase — SME’s appeal.
Let me put it to you another way…we here at JYJ3 are tired of delaying our celebration party! Thank you. Oh yes, you’re all invited by the way. We promise not to wear any lampshades!
Personally, KYM showing up for this session was simply a PR move. They knew darn good and well what the outcome was going to be.
If I believed in voodoo, I’d get me a doll and….well…..let your imagination go for it!
We promise not to wear any lampshades!
But…I just bought a new one. *POUT* It’s got tassels. They’re very sexy.
Well, if wearing a lampshade can lure you out of lurking to the party, maybe we’ll make an exception. Tassles you say? Long or short?
You know, when they are long, they swing better! Does your lampshade come with a finial? They can be quite decorative too.
I haven’t been lurking, I’ve been in the wilds of the Great White North. Today, I’m back at the borders of civilization (where there is reliable internet) before returning back to a proper city with its multiple-sources of bubble tea.
The tassels are short otherwise they will get in the champagne which I’ve been WAITING AND WAITING to open. I might even get caught up on JYJ3 reading before we’re given reason to indulge.
@Eliza
“he tassels are short otherwise they will get in the champagne which I’ve been WAITING AND WAITING to open. I might even get caught up on JYJ3 reading before we’re given reason to indulge. ”
Get ready to open it in about 4 weeks baby, because Our Time Has Come!
Oh, and a big welcome back!
@Eliza
Ok, short ones, gotcha! The Great White North! I’ve never been to Canada. Maybe one day when I hit the lottery, I’ll be able to add it to my travel list. I’ll give you a heads up if that happens.
Yep, I’m waiting to open mine as well. It’s in the fridge chilling right now. It won’t take me long to get my snackies together either. Not that I want to sound like a glutton, but if I’m going to be up all night while we party, I want to have choices: Onion Clam Dip/chips, Shrimp Cocktail, Cheese Nachos, Mixed Fruit Bowl, Champagne. The market is not far away, run right over, replenish and kick back. I know, don’t count my chickens before they hatch!
But something tells me, this time around, there will be no incentive for the Court to allow anymore delays. Arbitration was the last legal end a round available. If it didn’t work, let’s move on. I’m about positive thinking right now.
JYJ FIGHTING!!!!!
LOL!!! Welcome back @Eliza *hugs* I can’t wait to see you do a shimmy in that lampshade!
@BAF
I think the obvious play for us all now is to somehow wangle an invite to butterfliesarefree’s house for the big celebration! Girlfriend’s got it all goin’ on! I’ll bring some Homeboy Tortilla Chips (the best ever chips, trust me) And OK, maybe I might have a bottle of chilled Chandon Brut tucked under my arm too.
Special occasion and all.
I’m getting pretty excited just thinking about it!
Woot woot! Party time!! I’ll bring extra lampshades, & a camera to document the madness!!!
(If I was a K-villain, I’d get years of blackmail material out of this!!!)
I never had any online party before and never heard about any of it being held either.
A lot of us can’t wait to see that all these come to end.
But then again SME may appeal….. so how long again should we have to wait????!!! GGGRRRRrrrrr
If I’m not in the right mind… @butterfliesarefree2… Pass me that voodoo, doll sister !!!!!
@sempoi
We did talk about having it for the July 19th date, but well………I even put up a list of things we could do during the party. Hey, we can make this as much fun as people want it to be!
This time around, we just have to all put our positive thinking forces together and make it happen in September.
One voodoo doll come up for @sempoi if needed!
Oh, by the way. SME can appeal all they want. It’s their money to waste. It won’t change a thing. If their history of lawsuits is that they lose all the time, why would they win an appeal?
The fans will still be here to support JYJ through ALL of this, no matter where it leads. In the end, Jaejoong, Yoochun, and Junsu will still be STANDING TALL!!
And we will be there right beside them! The JYJ Ninja Army! This is the army SME will not defeat!
@Mummy-hen
I just wish SM would stop dragging this thing out. They need to understand that JYJ aren’t going to give up or give in, no matter how long it takes, & we fans aren’t going anywhere either. The more SM delays & plays these sort of games, the worse they are showing themselves to be, & the more people are actually seeing SM’s true colors. LSM prides himself on being such a genius businessman, but he is unable to see this simple fact! Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.
Oh my little chickadee, at this point in time, this is a mental illness issue. When you can’t let something go. When you keep trying to hold on to revenge. When you are compulsively focused on ruining someone else’s life. You are mentally ill. Also a reminder, there is a fine line between genius and idiocy.
There are countries that have had past wars with each other, who have moved on. They got it. They are no longer wasting life energy. LSM just does not have what it takes to come in out of the rain. In the end, it will be his undoing. It may not be today, tomorrow, or next week, but it will happen. The jails in this country are filled with folks who thought they were bigger than the law. Same kind of arrogance.
Their arrogance put them in a different world. They were not able to shoot the sheriff. The same applies to LSM. The man does not walk on water. He will find that out one day. As I mentioned in my fan account…I will keep the faith that those who are doing wrong by JYJ, will one day be on the receiving end. Lady Karma is going to see to it.
one of the fans(@petdino) in another post said :”I wonder if their exhibition as successful as JYJ’s?”
i suggest this article : http://www.kpopstarz.com/articles/12312/20120810/k-pop-25-dollars-for-one-sm-art-exhibition-ticket.htm
it’s interesting
@shana
I thought of posting something, but I couldn’t think of anything that wasn’t snide. And anyway, as of yesterday, I think I’ve done enough damage for one weekend.
(Of COURSE I had to go back onto AKP this morning and update the article on the arbitration hearing yesterday with the better http://dedicatee.wordpress.com/ link with the complete info. So compulsive) *siiigh*
@lilibaiyu
“I thought of posting something, but I couldn’t think of anything that wasn’t snide.”
I’m snickering away at that! Your self-restraint is admirable
“Exhibition to be Exported Overseas
The total cost of this exhibition was 56 million dollars. SM had anticipated at least 50,000 people to come see the exhibit within the 10 days it was open. Although it seems they had lost some money through this, they plan to export this exhibit next year to Japan, U.S., Europe and other countries as well.
It is also quite possible that other major companies will be willing to sponsor them as well.
This ‘SM Art Exhibition’ gained much attention, however it seemed that it did not quite meet their expectations. They are hoping that when they export the exhibition they will receive a better response.
***************
A whopping $56M? Whoa nelly. You could put up a building for that kind of money. An exhibition that is not meant to be permanent. Got it. Just to sell your brand? Even if all the anticipated 50K paid the top price $85, that only brings in about $4.25M. The top ticket price gets a gift. No, they are PAYING for a gift.
Ok, my VE Sister, I’ll add the snark. Why not take that $56M dollars and, ok here we go…invest in your artists. As in get them some quality songwriters, who write really good songs.
This really is throwing money down the drain. You would have to take this on a tour for the next 5-10 years to recoup. Who knows where technology will be by that time to render some of this stuff obsolete?
So, if your home grown folks can’t muster up more than 50K attendance, how lucky do you think you will be in other places? There are 11M people in the city of Seoul. Can’t wait to see this.
Oh, I really hope they meant 58M kwn, not dollars. That would make more sense. That would be approx. $56K USD. But with all the dodads mentioned in the article, I’m beginning to think this might not be the case.
Going back over the numbers…$56M…they will have to do a minimum 13 city tour – 10 days/city, pulling in at least 50K/city…ALL tickets @$85, just to break even. Ok, you can’t take SMTown on a 13 city worldwide tour, and pull in 50K/city. Explain to me how this exhibition works as a worldwide tour, and you make a profit?
Sure, you might get some sponsors to help you out, but you still won’t make a profit. NO WAY!
@Mummy-hen
China has a long-held habit of air-brushing anything that puts their politics in an unpleasant light, right down to re-writing history altogether. I think LSM has been taking lessons on this particular “skill.” Surely this can only be another exercise in duping their investors & the general S Korean public into thinking SM in particular & K-pop in general are going gang busters. I wonder if LSM has a tumor or something?? It’s almost unbelievable to think he’s going to keep throwing good money after bad on this exhibition. Even if Hallyu is making inroads into other countries, from everything I’ve seen & read, it’s not enough for SM to recoup the money spent, let alone make any profit. & if the entrance fee is exorbitant, (which it will have to be to try & make up for lack of numbers), keeping in mind that most SM fans are youngish, are their parents going to be happy forking out a fortune just for their kid to see a travelling exhibition? $56 is pretty steep to me for what SM are offering. As for their main overseas market, it looks like Japan is becoming more & more disenchanted with K-pop. Maybe I’m missing something here, but this just looks like it has disaster written all over it. I’ll be interested to see how this exhibition fares – the truth, not the glossy glossy SM will overlay it with, & if I’m wrong, I’ll – grudgingly! – eat my words. This really looks to me as if SM are flogging a dead horse, & too stubborn to admit that it is dead.
Sapphie sweetheart, this entire project does have disaster written all over it. There is only so much ‘airbrushing’ one can do. Yes, it looks as if they are trotting out a number of bells and whistles to entice people to come. But after reading what the projected attendance is, all I can say is WOW.
First, it claims there are at least (2) ticket prices: $25, $85 (this comes w/gift…
) Suppose you have two – three kids in the family who want to go? They better have some live performances at this thing.
The exhibition is costing $56M dollars. That is no small amount of money. If you cannot bring in more than 50K people in 10 days, that speaks volumes. If my memory serves me correctly, one comment was that most of this stuff the fans have seen already, it’s just being presented in different format – 3D, holograms, etc.
Granted SMTown fans tend to buy whatever junk is thrown at them simply because these are their idols’ projects. But the intimation is, this time around that is not happening. Now in order to makeup the shortfall they plan on taking this around for a world tour. I’m betting they do come up with some sponsors to help out. I honestly feel though that this will still wind up not making their money back.
As you stated, when going international, what did they factor in? First off, who know what the climate will be like in Japan when they are ready to put this on the road. Opening up a SMTown gift shop in Taiwan in one thing. You have to bring in huge crowds for multiple days. Where in the West can they do this? Yes, it is possible LSM has a brain tumor. They cause you not to think straight.
The investment in this exhibition will not be recouped. As I mentioned above, there are too many variables that need to be satisfied to even break even. The main factor is this will have to be set up in convention centers. If they are putting this up for 10 days in Seoul, name one convention center in Australia that has exhibitions in their conventions centers for 10 days. Ok, exhibitions in museums, art galleries yes, but this is not those kinds of projects.
We have a fairly sizeable convention center. The longest exhibition ever is our International Flower Show. People come in from ALL over the world to see it EVERY year, in March. It has been in existence for about 60 years I believe. Depending on economic times it usually draws anywhere from 100K-200K people in 9 days, from weekend to weekend. Tickets never more than $30.00. It has a history, with avid fans. We’re not the only city that has a flower show, London’s is also a huge draw. An SME kpop exhibition? I don’t think so.
It might have sounded good on paper, but the reality sucks. This is going to be VERY INTERESTING.
Let’s look on the bright side. If they have this kind of money to throw down the drain, they certainly can’t claim they have no money to pay JYJ, now can they.
@BAF
“The exhibition is costing $56M dollars. That is no small amount of money. If you cannot bring in more than 50K people in 10 days, that speaks volumes. If my memory serves me correctly, one comment was that most of this stuff the fans have seen already, it’s just being presented in different format – 3D, holograms, etc.”
But don’t you just KNOW that the whole thing is being underwritten by the Government of SK? I’d betcha anything it is.
@BAF
“Sure, you might get some sponsors to help you out, but you still won’t make a profit. NO WAY!”
I’m telling you, the whole mess is probably being sponsored by the government. LSM is a snake oil salesman and here we have a big vat of it because as Sapphie said below, one of the groups he’s been conning re: this “we’re going to conquer the world with K-Pop!” is his own government. He has convinced those in high places that he can do this. Since he controls many people, reporters etc in the media in SK and they back him up, I guess the government officials read it, see it glossily depicted on TV and think it’s happening! But it isn’t. It’s a con.
@Lili
“But don’t you just KNOW that the whole thing is being underwritten by the Government of SK? I’d betcha anything it is.”
Sis, I’m not so sure this time. This is a whole different ballgame here. Yes, this does fall under the ‘let’s promote the Hallyu Wave banner’. Think about this for a moment, $56M in tourism dollars? For something that is not a sure thing? This is not even bringng dollars into the country, but taking them out. How about all the other cultural elements saying why don’t we get this same deal?
One shot concerts are one thing. Multiple day exhibitions are another. Even the concerts are not held in the largest of places, for the most part. Some yes, some no. Even an SMTown tour goes to what 5-6 cities, spread out? Cost of the venue, some advertising, insurance, a few trinkets sold.
Usually a tour promoter will provide your staging and props. This is an exhibit that has to shuttle it’s own stuff around from location to location. Like I said, if they did a 10 day stop each place, they would have to do minimum, at least a 13 city tour. Where?
What 13 cities will produce enough kpop enthusiam to bring out 50K people, for 10 days straight? LA, NYC, LV, Paris, London, Madrid, Berlin, Lima, Sao Paolo, Mexico City, Vancouver, Toronto, Melbourne, Sidney? Yes, this would include the usual places in Asia, but we are talking MAJOR expenditures here, just to break even. To me the issue is sustainability. Can they sustain this? That is the bigger question. But time will tell.
@Sapphire
” Maybe I’m missing something here, but this just looks like it has disaster written all over it. I’ll be interested to see how this exhibition fares – the truth, not the glossy glossy SM will overlay it with, & if I’m wrong, I’ll – grudgingly! – eat my words. This really looks to me as if SM are flogging a dead horse, & too stubborn to admit that it is dead.”
The braintrust at SM believes that the well-known credo of advertising that “Perception Is Everything” can be yanked and stretched to any size whatsoever. They believe that if they and their cronies in the SK press corps report it enough, promote it enough and shove it down people’s throats enough it will somehow magically become true. And God knows, MAYBE IN S KOREA IT IS THAT WAY! SM has been functioning there with impunity for years. But the problem, and I still can hardly believe that they haven’t realized this, is that when they Leave The Country all bets are off. The reporters of the international press do not have any stake in creating the rosy fictions for Mom and Pop back home in Seoul to smile at. In fact, if anything, K-Pop and the Hallyu Wave is seen as pushy, obnoxious and artistically shallow over-seas. Sure, SM can invite their cronies in the SK press on another all expense-paid holiday and have them tag along and write glowing things about the exhibit, but what is that?? It’s a giant CON! Sooner or later, that will be exposed. The truth always wends its way out of the darkness towards the light of day.
EXHIBITION TO BE EXPORTED OVERSEAS
“Although it seems they had lost some money through this, they plan to export this exhibition next year to Japan, U.S., Europe and other countries as well.”
I don’t know whether I have to be amazed or not in this idea. This idea for me is quite unique, as probably haven’t been thought before by other people there in SK’s idol business. But wait, I re-think again, and come to a conclusion that however, I myself will be more proud if foreign people come flocking all around to gather in my country. That way, will surely increase the number of tourism visitor in my country, and directly helps to boost the local economy in my own country. I myself would be so glad and willing to attend JYJ’s exhibition, flew over from my country to Seoul, if I were given the opportunity..That’s my opinion.
Anyway, I see where SM is trying to set their mission by having this “exhibition-export” idea, what else if it’s not to show off their so called “k-pop is taking over the world” phenomena…
In another note: I don’t mind about the affordable price ticket if it would be applied to any worth exhibition, so JYJ doesn’t have to be hesitate to set a ticket price for their next JYJ’s exhibition. As example, the 2012 Yeosu Korea Marine Exhibition that I would be willingly attend. The whole venue was so great, the laser/3D/IT performance was mesmerizing, and the messages being carried trough the whole exhibition was very noble as to protect our ocean legacy.
@ai uta
I honestly don’t know why SM would export this to Europe, the U.S and other countries. Maybe it’s some sort of ploy to show off how “influential” and “popular” their artists are internationally. As an American, I can personally vouch that their artists aren’t popular enough for SM to garner some sort of profit.
Two, Europe is made of numerous countries, which countries will SM choose? Their artists aren’t popular enough that a lot of people would fly to go see this exhibit. Three, America is a large country. What cities will they choose? Like the case with Europe, most people will not be willing to fly to the cities that are hosting this exhibit.
SM should really rethink this exportation of their exhibit.
It is a wrong translation!!! The original korean article has a sum of 5,6 million USD, not 56!!!
yep. it’s 5.6 billion won, precisely about $4.9 million. koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2957706&cloc=joongangdaily%7Chome%7Conline
Well, that’s more like it. I was simply confused as to how they thought they could possibly make up that ‘previously reported’ amount of $56M. Thanks for the clarification. Yes, a decimal place in the right position makes all the difference in the world. My checkbook can tell you that.
if i go to artists exhibition, i expect to at least meet the real person, not the virtual ones. or to see the photos or footages i’ve never saw before… not an electronic and art exhibition lol.
random thought: i want to go to coex… it’s rm 74 venue lol xD
oh and of course by “THEIR” she means SM !
Since JYJ are making plans for their new worldwide album, I would like to ask everyone, here on JYJ, a question. Did you guys enjoy The Beginning? I personally enjoyed all of the tracks including Ayyy Girl (although it sounded unfinished and I didn’t care for Kanye singing). Most JYJ fans didn’t really like that song or The Beginning because they believed it sounded too Americanized. What exactly is an Americanized sound? Doesn’t JYJ’s already show that they were influenced by American artists?
It really makes me upset when I see fans sling mud at Kanye West and other American artists. Just because his part on Ayyy Girl and his past actions weren’t the greatest, doesn’t mean that he’s a terrible artist. In fact he’s a marvelous artist, and I am thankful that he was willing to work with JYJ. It also irks me when some fans say that all western music is vulgar. Do they not see that JYJ is influenced by this so-called vulgar music?
Sorry for this rant. I was just a little upset with some of the things I was reading on twitter.
@majolie1992
I liked The Beginning too. As for Kanye’s rap, I didn’t like it, & his voice annoys me, but I just enjoy the contrast between his & the gold of JYJ ^___^ I’ve been watching an Asian pop music show lately, waiting in vain for them to play JYJ’s MV’s, & if some fans are saying all Western music is vulgar, they need to watch some of the Asian pop MV’s!! & tbh, it seems those fans who are complaining The Beginning was too Americanized are missing the point – it was JYJ’s first international album & they were aiming for the international market – which is primarily dominated by American artists or “Americanized” music. They knew the market they were targeting & tailored their music accordingly. Fans have every right not to like the result, but don’t knock the business savvy behind it.
@majolie1992
I have to laugh when I hear how others criticize the ‘American’ sound. Well now, if there had been no ‘American’ sound (black music), there would be no kpop. Ok, if they lump all Western music together as vulgar, then that shows how truly ignorant they are. How do they define vulgar? Clean and pure is the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, okay?
If these folks think all Western music is vulgar, then they know nothing really. They would have to have listened to EVERY Western artist(s) out there to make that judgment. Not to mention, prove that every song sung had vulgar lyrics or meanings. Western culture has so many genres, with so many artists. This is simply a really stupid thing to say. Geez, where do these people come from!
I’m one of the few who liked ‘The Beginning’. I like ‘Ayyy Girl’ because it is a catchy dance tune and I like to dance. I’m not into Kanye, but I don’t dislike him either. I also happened to like “The Lion Sleeps Tonight”. It doesn’t make sense either.
I honestly believe what is driving this kind of nonsense is the fact that JYJ no longer is following the kpop formula sound. You see it all over the place…”they don’t sound like they did when they were with TVXQ”…”their songs don’t have the SME sound”, etc, etc, etc.
These are folks who are still tied to kpop as it is, and can’t or won’t accept anything that is not ‘traditional’ kpop. They are not able to EVOLVE along with JYJ as they evolve. The members of JYJ want to create what is in their musical souls, not in others. For this I applaud them.
I think as it closer and closer to the time when the final decision comes down, you are going to see more and more of this. When this decision does come down, it will indicate the end of an era. These folks are simply not ready for this. But that is their problem.
JYJ is garnering a whole new international fandom who do appreciate what the ‘JYJ’ sound is. This new international fandom cares enough to let JYJ evolve the way the members want to evolve. For me, as long as they are happy, I’m happy. It’s just that simple.
@butterfliesarefree2
I totally agree. It’s very difficult to find people who share my feelings about this issue. I’m glad that JYJ are working with American artists and are having tours in America. It gives them the chance to experiment with their sound, and their image. I also have noticed that some fans are worried about JYJ’s music becoming vulgar if they continue to work with American artists. Do they forget that JYJ has the last say so in what they do. If JYJ thinks a song is too vulgar, they won’t sing it. JYJ have strong characters. Currently, they’re standing up to SM. If they can stand up to SM, I’m pretty sure they won’t compromise their morals and values! They believe so much in their values that Jaejoong and Yoochun tattooed it on their bodies!
“Do they forget that JYJ has the last say so in what they do. If JYJ thinks a song is too vulgar, they won’t sing it. JYJ have strong characters. Currently, they’re standing up to SM. If they can stand up to SM, I’m pretty sure they won’t compromise their morals and values! They believe so much in their values that Jaejoong and Yoochun tattooed it on their bodies!”
You make a very interesting point. What the criticism shows is that these folks don’t really know the members of JYJ as well as they think they do. Obviously, it is a waste of their time to follow JYJ because they just don’t get them. Sad.
I’ll bet they don’t even recall that the guys wrote the lyrics to their three solos on The Beginning. Do they even sit down and listen to them or bother to check them out online? IMHO, those were the best songs on the album, although I liked the entire album. They were the ones that had the most ‘soul’. You would have to be either souless or clueless to not appreciate those songs. Gosh, I recall how they sounded live! I still get chills up and down my spine.
Seriously, what is wrong with these people?
I think they should have featured a female artist instead or did the Youtube independent artist stuff to get noticed by Americans maybe (impromptu singing sessions…show the American public they can sing and allow the channel to get more popular…kind of like what Jay Park did).They probably should have added a channel for their reality show too..on Youtube…2NE1 has all their episodes on their official channel…I believe.
Kanye West annoyed a lot of Americans after his infamous incident with Swift and people really didn’t care for him….Unfortunately, JYJ probably didn’t realize that Kanye’s popularity was declining.
Kanye charges a lot around 100,00 plus or more..with fees for the beats and verse separate…My issue with
Kanye is that I feel he took these men for their money and I’m not too cool with Rodney either…it probably cost a lot to work with him too…I’m just doubtful about these Hollywood producers…hopefully, they work with someone with more honest intentions.
Gee Daisy, it looks as if you have some very strong opinions. Granted one does not have to like everybody, but I honestly feel there are some real issues here.
Regardless of what you might think, both men have Grammys to back up their experiences. Not that that is the be all of anything. It’s good to know you are privy to their inner professional workings. Not sure if Kanye is as unpopular as you might think. Maybe with a certain group of people yes, but his tour with Jay-Z was quite successful, as was their album.
Specifically how do you know they did not have honest intentions working with JYJ, care to enlighten us?
@butterfliesarefree2 ∞
Gee Daisy, it looks as if you have some very strong opinions. Granted one does not have to like everybody, but I honestly feel there are some real issues here.
Regardless of what you might think, both men have Grammys to back up their experiences. Not that that is the be all of anything. It’s good to know you are privy to their inner professional workings. Not sure if Kanye is as unpopular as you might think. Maybe with a certain group of people yes, but his tour with Jay-Z was quite successful, as was their album.
Specifically how do you know they did not have honest intentions working with JYJ, care to enlighten us?
——————————————————
JYJ had at least five people or more working on their English album…Malik Yusef, Kanye West, those two female producers or writers that were featured in The Beginning making of video ( not sure who those females were), Rodney Jerkins…plus studio time..it all had to cost them over 100,000…and all those endorsements from Rodney Jerkins on Youtube and elsewhere..including that endorsement from Kanye West…which probably was part of the cost..
These producers…in my opinion did not give JYJ their 100 percent…when they should have…because thats what they were being paid to do…I can’t remember the interview but Junsu talked about having conflicting feelings towards The Beginning album….I really think he and the rest of JYJ learned from that experience.
Kanye in my opinion did not have honest intentions..not once did he appear in any of their live performances…there is not even a picture of him and JYJ (correct me if I am wrong.)…if he was suppose to help promote JYJ he could have done a better job…to me awards don’t define success…a lot of good artist out there…don’t have awards…but their music is probably on the same level…if not better than Kanye’s…
I don’t doubt Kanye has a dedicated fanbase…but it is obvious in America…that people’s opinion of him is not very popular…and not just from K-pop fans either..Its from people of all musical interest…
West is not exactly known for having a kind hearted personality…nor is the American music industry known for being fair or nice…I’m not gonna look at JYJ’s past situation with the people they worked with…through rose colored glassess…they were three young Korean males with money…without any experience in the American music industry…with less than perfect English…
I just think they probably encountered a few people in the American music industry..who had less than good intentions…and were only looking out for what they could gain from JYJ. I think Jaejoong even mentioned his jewerly being stolen…while they were working in L.A….
@Daisy
Ok, we are going to agree to disagree on just about all of this. Somehow, I don’t get where you think being involved with all that prodcution was supposed to be done on the cheap. And yes, you can assume if you want to, that they were ‘taken’. I personally don’t get that vibe, but you do.
I am aware a number of people feel JYJ didn’t get their ‘best’ material. I won’t even go into that again, because I’ll sound like a broken record. Still don’t get how folks miss the fact that the guys co-wrote three of the songs on the album, but hey.
As for Junsu’s comment, maybe he was simply speaking in a cautionary way, since this was their first English language album and they didn’t have the confidence they needed. He certainly didn’t have a problem continuing to mention having worked with everyone on the album.
Believe me, I have no illusions about the American music industry. Been around way too long and seen enough to know how it works. I may not have the experience my VE Sister has in the industry, but I do know a few people who also work or have worked in it. No rose colored glasses here. So, you have your opinion and I have mine.
@Daisy
“Kanye charges a lot around 100,00 plus or more..with fees for the beats and verse separate…My issue with
Kanye is that I feel he took these men for their money and I’m not too cool with Rodney either…it probably cost a lot to work with him too…I’m just doubtful about these Hollywood producers…hopefully, they work with someone with more honest intentions.”
Yeah, gotta agree with you there. The first time around, I also feel these people were simply looking at a payday (and a big one at that; JYJ had deep pockets as we say in the US) but to be fair… whose first foray into any creative endeavor in a new country is a complete success, pop music-wise? At the time, I felt that the producers involved in The Beginning had given their “B” or even “C” material for those big bucks so I wasn’t happy with the results either, mostly because I couldn’t escape feeling that JYJ had been dissed somehow and that was unacceptable to me.
Now, I am more hopeful that the guys will be more discriminating. I think they have digested the feedback and have also improved their English in the intervening years. Let’s wait and see what they come up with.
@lilibaiyu
It really irks me to think that those American producers…could have been thinking of JYJ as easy money…especially if they were told of how SM mistreated them………. ( I’m almost sure JYJ told their story)…Nonetheless, I think they have learned from their first time experience with American producers…this time around I believe they will be more selective and aware of other peoples intentions..and become better at picking the right producers and marketing teams.
@Daisy
“t really irks me to think that those American producers…could have been thinking of JYJ as easy money…especially if they were told of how SM mistreated them………. ( I’m almost sure JYJ told their story)…Nonetheless, I think they have learned from their first time experience with American producers…this time around I believe they will be more selective and aware of other peoples intentions..and become better at picking the right producers and marketing teams.”
Well… I gotta say, again I agree with you in all your points about this. My gut feelings about the short shrift the guys got with Kanye and Rodney are the same. I also agree that THIS time around things are going to be a lot different and all you have to do is listen to the new teaser of “Uncommitted” that was released today to hear the difference. This production ROCKS heavy. “Automatic” nailed it, the song is great and Junsu’s performance… like butter. Can’t wait to see and hear the whole thing.
@Daisy
What Kanye West did to Taylor Swift was stupid, but that happened years ago. Things in Hollywood move fast; so this issue is not much of an issue anymore. Although, I don’t know much about Kanye West, I do know that he doesn’t work with just anyone. If he believes it will be a good fit, then he will work with an artist. His personality must not be the greatest, but he takes his craft very seriously! The version of Ayyy Girl we hear on The Beginning is not the original version.
Most fans like the songs (Empty and Be My Girl) that Rodney Jerkins produced. I think Rodney Jerkins did an amazing job with what he had. I mean JYJ doesn’t even speak English; so that’s got be a challenge!
The only reason why The Beginning did nto go anywhere is because of JYJ. They did no promotions. In order for JYJ to get the
success they and fans desire, they have to put in some work!
its from tumblr u can see the pic .. link is there
http://windchimehg.tumblr.com/
I have no idea how real this is. But according to this pamphlet, it’s for a cultural exchange event to celebrate the 20 year anniversary of China-Korea Diplomatic Relationship.
The Korean Artists include: Jang WooHyuk, Jang Keun-Suk, ————-> JYJ, IU, Wonder Girls, Sistar, 2PM and Chae Yeon
The Chinese Artists include: Jang Zhang, Han Geng, Show Luo, Jiro Wang (Fahrenheit), Soda Green and F.I.R.
The person who posted this on weibo is a manager from an entrainment company according to her weibo verification. According to her the event is going to be on October 12th. The list of artist is what was provided at the press con announcing this event, but there is still a possibility for last minute changes.
Anyhow… this looks …. interesting …
@jjer
It does sound interesting, but I’m going to wait for C-Jes to confirm this before I get excited. Actually, suddenly having deja vu memories of Jeju Island last year, I’ll wait for JYJ to actually take the stage before I start jumping up & down.
lol if it’s real, sm idols will obviously not attend this. jyj and hangeng in one show! like double slaps in sm’s face, hehe. maybe even triple with jang woohyuk. xD please make it real~ *cross fingers*
LMAO, LOL, LOL, LOL,
. that is indeed a major trifecta of FU SM. I want to see that so badly.
Not only, our boys have to keep quiet about their projects because of blockings, now they have to keep their ideas hidden because these dirtbags companies appropriate their ideas as their own. However, customary to their greed and nearsightness, the effects of their appropriation are showing so clearly. It’s also very interesting to see how many k-pop sites are licking the boots of these “major companies”; it’s sickening. LSM and JYP, YHS, and the others are fighting for supremacy, not for the sake of the young artists, but to see which one of them can hold on longer, it’s very much a boys club packaged with glitter, bows, and colors. Can they scratch each other’s eyes sooner than later, so we can have these youngsters live up their lives freely?
@daebaksama
“LSM and JYP, YHS, and the others are fighting for supremacy, not for the sake of the young artists, but to see which one of them can hold on longer, it’s very much a boys club packaged with glitter, bows, and colors. Can they scratch each other’s eyes sooner than later, so we can have these youngsters live up their lives freely?”
You would think with the formation of the UAM group this would not be necessary. No?
To Everyone who may have overlooked this posting because we get so many wonderful ones. Please take time to check it out. Hopefully, you will be able to help….thanks.
http://jyj3.net/2012/08/10/fan-project-jyj-reach-jyj-philippines-flood-relief-charity-project/
Hey guys, apparently another big storm is due to hit Manila so if you haven’t donated to the JYJPH fund & are interested in doing so, we only have a few more days, til the 17th. 90 people have been confirmed dead & 1 million people displaced already. Many of us I-fans have always wanted to do something in JYJ’s name, & the donations, which will be given to the Philippines Red Cross, will be donated in the name of JYJ fans.
To all of our JYJ Filippina sisters & unnies, please stay safe, & my prayers go out to you, your families & friends.
YES!
My kdrama forum group’s next drama discussion will be…..PROTECT THE BOSS! We’ll probably start it by the end of this week or beginning of next week. SO HAPPY!
We’re finishing up ROOFTOP PRINCE now! Everyone loves it.
Maxi is officially my new favorite person!!! It’s about time someone told these, for lack of a better term, obsessive, easily butthurt fans! If only Telisha wasn’t so nice!!!!
@majolie1992
??
@lilibaiyu
Some fans wanted a teaser for Junsu’s video/concept, and when Maxi posted one, some fans got upset. I’m glad Maxi stood up for himself.
@majolie1992
Can’t please everyone.
I suppose if it was an ‘official’ teaser, they would have liked that better.
To me, a teaser is a teaser. Frankly, even though it was a smartphone recording, the rhythm of the song sounded awesome, can’t wait for it to be released!
As Carnac the Magnificent used to say…I PREDICT…
@majolie1992
If that was a “teaser” I’m a monkey’s uncle. That was nothing. And it was illegal – unauthorized. Fans should not be subjected to that kind of non-event. Maxi was wrong to have posted it. (I’m sure he’ll be hearing from C-jeS.) Just because you’re a make-up artist on a REAL artist’s shoot doesn’t mean you can release crap like that on YouTube and hope for much of a future career. Word gets around. I am sick and tired of American music video technicians thinking that because they are dealing with Asians they can do whatever they like with privileged footage they might somehow shoot. This is wrong and the video was lame. That was NOT a “teaser.”
@butterfliesarefree2
I totally agree! A teaser is a teaser! These fans need to learn that they’re just fans! They don’t control anything. Our jobs as fans are to only support the artist we’re fans of! If only Telisha was a little bit more like Maxi!
@lilbaiyu
Maxi didn’t post it on youtube. A fan posted it on twitter. Honestly, if you want to get mad you should get mad at fans also since they asked for the teaser. I understand that Maxi should have waited, but it was nice of him to post something for the fans.
How exactly would Maxi make a career out posting a teaser? The last time I checked he was a makeup artist, which is someone who works behind the scenes. If he wanted to advance his career wouldn’t it make since to post a video of him doing someone’s makeup? For this project, he didn’t even do Junsu’s makeup; so how can he advance his career?
And what other American music video technicians have thought they can do whatever they want? For some reason, fans have something against JYJ’s American staff. JYJ’s American staff have been nothing but the best to help JYJ when no one in their fields want to help.
Honestly some fans need to back off. In places other than Korea and Japan, JYJ aren’t well known, and are attempting to make a name for themselves. Fans need to understand that the world doesn’t revolve around JYJ. Attitudes like this are hazardous instead of helpful to JYJ and Junsu’s future career in new places.
@majolie19992
“Maxi didn’t post it on youtube. A fan posted it on twitter. Honestly, if you want to get mad you should get mad at fans also since they asked for the teaser. I understand that Maxi should have waited, but it was nice of him to post something for the fans.”
Nice try, but that’s not what I posted. Maybe you should read a post more carefully before you dump on it. Putting up unauthorized videos on YouTube is not “nice for fans.” It’s merely illegal. I hope he catches hell for it.
As to your query “and what other American music video technicians have thought they can do whatever they want? ”
As I have said, as I have said many times before, I don’t think the combined personnel on “The Beginning” gave their best on that project. MANY people have agreed so I know I’m not completely off on a tangent. The video was not in fact geared for the US market. (The song wasn’t either.) US audiences could not possibly made heads nor tails of that video, sorry. And as we saw, they didn’t.
I have high hopes for Xia’s chances. I think based on his album so far and the video that accompanied it that he may have a better handle on what will work. BUT, releasing piss-poor snippets of his new song, as Maxi did, is not a good start. It was lame and I bet Xia is NOT happy about it. You say … “fans should realize…” bla bla bla, but YOU should realize that an artist of Junsu’s caliber and driven nature does not want half-assed bits of work-in-progress being released ahead of the full-length, edited official release date. All that can do is deflate what Junsu hopes is going to be a home run. It’s what he’s worked for, it’s what he has put a lot of time and energy into getting right.
This isn’t kindergarten, it isn’t amateur night. This is the big leagues now. It’s gotta be right and it’s gotta be approved by Junsu.
@Lili
“Putting up unauthorized videos on YouTube is not “nice for fans.” It’s merely illegal. I hope he catches hell for it.”
I hav a question…How does this situation differ from fancams of concerts? You know, the ones that are not official concert dvds, but everyone craves to see a fancam? Somehow, I don’t see the difference. If there is one, can you explain what it is?
@BAF
“Somehow, I don’t see the difference. If there is one, can you explain what it is?”
Yes. There will be an imminently released official video in the next couple of weeks. This will the the image, the look that Junsu has signed off on. With the best sound quality of the song, the images etc that all the professionals who worked on it have created. This is the big time now. There should be NO “leaks” and “teasers” unofficially released by someone who did make-up, for pity sakes. Come on.
All you have to do is listen to Junsu sing to know the man is a perfectionist. Watch him dance and know he cares about every little thing. Give me a break. Let the man be represented as he directs. This shot is important to him.
@lilbaiyou
“Just because you’re a make-up artist on a REAL artist’s shoot doesn’t mean you can release crap like that on YouTube and hope for much of a future career,”
I’m taking this to mean that you believed Maxi posted it on Youtube. He did not post it on youtube. A fan posted it on youtube; so not only was Maxi’s actions illegal but the fans actions were also illegal.
“As I have said, as I have said many times before, I don’t think the combined personnel on “The Beginning” gave their best on that project. MANY people have agreed so I know I’m not completely off on a tangent. The video was not in fact geared for the US market.
As far as I can remember, the American staff only worked with JYJ during the recording process. The recording process is totally different from the music video process. The things most fans forget when discussing “The Beginnning” is that three different people had a part in producing the album. They are Kanye West/Malik Yusef, Rodney Jerkins and Joe Chong. Also the JYJ members Iproduced their own solos on that album. So are you saying that JYJ did not give their best? I have also heard that many people like “Empty”, “Be My Girl” (which were both produced by Rodney Jerkins) and “Be the One” (which was producd by Joe Chong, who also works with Aziatix). Are these songs not up to par? Also the American staff did not produce the Ayyy Girl music video. I have no idea where you got that from.
Fans need to realize that we are just here to support our artists by buying the things they produce. If Junsu did not want Maxi to release his teaser, then leave it to Junsu to deal with it. I agree that maybe Maxi’s timing was wrong, but he only did it for the fans not to gain attention.
@majolie1992
I’m not going to go back and forth about this with you. I will stand by my earlier statement. Whoever posted that shred of video got it from Maxi and they were both in the wrong. Junsu undoubtedly will deal with it.
i agree, some fans need to calm down and stop making a mountain out of a molehill. xiah can speak up for himself. if xiah has a problem with it then let him be the one to say it to maxi.
A++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Can anyone please tell me what the official reasons that JYJ can’t perform in Japan are? Can they do it after the law suit with SM finishes, say after Sep 10?
The reason is they have an exclusive contract with Avex (it was signed in Feb 2010 directly between Avex and C-JeS) so that they can ´t promote in Japan without its consent. And Avex stopped their promotions because of alleged connections of C-JeS with korean mafia. That means JYJ is blocked in Japan till the contract is over (probably Jan 2014) or till they would win their lawsuit in japan against Avex (that is separated from their lawsuit with SM so that a win against SM means nothing for their japanese activities)..
Thanks for the information. How’s their lawsuit against Avex going? I think I only saw news about the lawsuit between C-Jes and Avex few weeks ago. Can we expect Japanese court to process it faster than the Korean one? Sorry for the dumb questions, I’m a relatively new fan and the lawsuits seem very complicated and confusing.
ok I don’t understand.. so they signed with avex after they sued SM? why did they do that? I mean, didn’t JYJ know thay sm has big influence on avex?
@lilibayu
That’s fine with me.
@majolie1992
Thanks. An apology is in order regarding my posts of last night. I was stressed yesterday over an unrelated situation here and I must have been feeling especially volatile. I’m afraid I wrote my comments to you using impolite language because of it and for that I apologize to you. There would have been many better, less confrontational ways of expressing myself on the points I made and I will certainly try to be more civil in the future. Reasonable men differ, as the saying goes, and we can certainly agree to disagree on this one and still look forward to conversing on other topics in the future.
@lilibaiyu
It’s alright! I enjoyed the debate! I don’t think the language you used was impolite. I would rather debate with you and the other members of JYJ3 than to debate with other people on Twitter.
So, there is U-Kiss, and then there is one member AJ who was admitted to Columbia University, NY, and who postponed his education, but who in the end chose to attend the school. He is starting college this fall. I was like cheering for him all over the place even though I am not following U-Kiss. Bravo, to him to choose education. I wish him great success in his studies. What are your thoughts about idols choosing education over their entertainment? I am all for it, but I also understand these youngsters being conflicted.
@daebaksama
“Bravo, to him to choose education. I wish him great success in his studies. What are your thoughts about idols choosing education over their entertainment? I am all for it, but I also understand these youngsters being conflicted.”
Personally, I think it makes a hell of a lot of sense, given the current state of the SK entertainment business landscape. It’s dice-y at best, ruinous at worst and let’s face it – it favors the young and discards the “getting older” unceremoniously in favor of bright new faces. I think the kid from U-Kiss is smart. He knows that pop stardom is a young man’s game and as a few of us here know, youth really doesn’t last very long at all.
yup, k-pop sure has a high turn around, not because the youngsters choose to leave it behind, but because they are easily replaceable. have you seen the plethora of new youngsters debuting every week? the training academies is a big business allegedly.
As far as AJ is concerned. it’s going to be hard for him in the beginning. I do work w/ international students, and even though they are very bright, studying in the USA/ different language/ different culture/ educational system is so darn hard. So, I wish that he will reach out to the support services available and sticks with the schooling till the end. majority ( 90%) of my students are really successful during their schooling and after going to graduate schools…
@daebaksama
Yes, one of the things you have to give to the Koreans is that they really really value education, they really BELIEVE in it. The problem with these training academies is that they are just businesses, trying to make money. There are some things that you can learn if you want a career as a singing, dancing idol of course, but there are a few pretty important things that can’t be taught.
Still, kids have dreams and people want to make a living (and this I’m guessing is a pretty successful kind of a business in SK) so what can you do?
@daebaksama
smart people must not only think about today, but what will be tomorrow, it looks like “Tablo” is also the best graduates from Stanford
@daebaksama
i saw that piece a couple of days ago and was similarly impressed. Lena Park finished last year, or the year before from Colombia. Although I don’t consider her an idol singer. For all the ones who recognize the future is limited in kpop, kudos!
Only those with exceptional talent will break through and have long careers. The others will be at the mercy of an industry that considers them as nothing more than ‘disposable cellphones’.
It is good that a country wants it’s youth to be educated, but when they project the image of idols as being preferable, that’s when the problems begin. There are only so many opportunities. Get that education, take what you’ve learned in the industry, and do something with it. I wish him much success.
[poll] male idol group with the strongest ‘determination’ — dunno whether this is real or sarcasm towards t-ara, haha. but for male idols i guess it’s for real.
http://poll.dcnews.in/dcnews/poll/poll_list.php
jyj is currently 2nd, dbsk (… homin?) is currently 1st. i can stand anyone else wins over jyj but not them. lol. please vote, today is the last day. ^^
done ^^
http://poll.dcnews.in/dcnews/poll/poll_list.php?key_poll=533
dbsk/homin won the poll, jyj are 2nd. article: http://www.dcnews.in/news_list.php?code=human&id=659050
jyj excerpt:
이어 JYJ가 3,572표(29.7%)를 얻어 2위를 차지했다. JYJ는 2009년 3월 소속사와의 갈등으로 탈퇴한 동방신기의 김재중, 박유천, 김준수로 이뤄진 그룹이다. 소송 등의 문제로 가수 활동은 제약을 겪고 있으나, 앨범 ‘The Beginning’과 ‘In Heaven’ 등이 국내는 물론 해외에서도 많은 판매고를 기록하며 인기를 얻고 있다. 멤버들의 개인 활동도 두드러져 김준수는 각종 뮤지컬시상식에서 신인상을 받으며 뮤지컬배우로 자리매김했고, 박유천과 김재중은 드라마를 통해 탄탄한 연기실력을 선보이며 배우로서의 능력도 인정받고 있다.
(google translate, edited, not accurate though):
Next, JYJ’s 3572 votes (29.7%) achieved a second place. Following JYJ’s withdrawal conflict with the company in March 2009, DBSK’s Kim Jaejoong, Park Yoochun, and Kim Junsu formed a group. Despite the undergoing lawsuit and singer activities constrains, their album ‘The Beginning’ and ‘In Heaven’ are sold well both domestically and internationally and gained high popularity. The members’ individual activites are also stand out, Kim Junsu won various musical newcomer awards and established himself as a musical actor. Park Yoochun and Kim Jaejoong made their ability as actors recognized by showing solid acting skill in their dramas.
—-
just so you know, the first few lines of dbsk/homin are about dbsk’s past activities. and nope, i’m not being bitter. i’m just saying that people are well aware of these guys’ achievements from past and present. since the “determination” became the trending word, and at the same time jyj’s lawsuit chronicle is finally continued, i felt really proud for having them as my bias. and i’m glad that i found out many people, not just fans, realized that. at the end of the day, a fan poll is just a fan poll. ^^
last night i read an article about 2vxq’s record with their new single, ANDROID and how they have ranked number 1 with 11 of their songs and this will be the first time in 45 years that an artist has broken the record for a foreign artists ranking number 1 on the weekly chart over 10 times . after reading that i thought how shameless they can be ! only 1 song of this 11 songs was from after split . how can they stand there and pretend they were the ones that achieve this record . cant they feel any shame . maybe i’m wrong but i strongly believe that they should separate they own achievement from tvxq5 achievement . they should stop riding the honor that jyj was part of it ..
Just let them, for me i dont care anymore even if they want to sing all dbsk5 song and replacing all JYJ voice with their voice.. i dont care, for me now this just all about JYJ. JYJ now always doing something new even their ex company copying them and for 2tvxq sorry they are to boring nothing new its just the same like they are still with JaeChunSu.
@shana
” maybe i’m wrong but i strongly believe that they should separate they own achievement from tvxq5 achievement . they should stop riding the honor that jyj was part of it ..”
They can’t. At least not yet. And to be fair, it’s certainly not their decision. SM wants to milk every last dime out of the old group. I think it’s amazing that they have no problem embarrassing Homin with this shoddy bait and switch of an album. They know this isn’t anything that they themselves achieved on thoer own and can be proud of. And of course, as usual, they say nothing and go along with everything. This is TVX2. This is what they do, folks. That’s why I said they are now a party to SM’s trickery and low down business ethics, sorry but it’s true. But just wait. Sooner or later they are going to have to start making their own music. They can’t comb through the DBSK5 archives forever. So this unpleasant situation is most likely temporary.
I am thinking that someone could contact the best or some of the best investigative reporters in Korea to do an in-depth article on the dirty shenanigans going on at SM.They could interview former disgruntled SM artists (members of H.O.T. come to mind) and expose this corrupt company.They could even interview SM employees (anonymously, of course) I was just wondering out loud if SM is connected to the Korean mafia? Anyway, this article could be printed in a major Korean newspaper and expose SM’s slimy ways. Is any Korean reporter (or reporters) brave enough to do it?
@Shirley, USA
“Anyway, this article could be printed in a major Korean newspaper and expose SM’s slimy ways. Is any Korean reporter (or reporters) brave enough to do it?”
Not so far. It’s been 3 years. That article from Dedicatee was the closest I’ve seen so far. TV and print reporters routinely refer to “JYJ not being able to promote on TV” and never say another word about WHY THAT MIGHT BE. It’s astounding to think about, really. Everyone is scared shitless of SM and their alleged Power to end careers. But that’s why they just have to fall – they just have to. No one this evil can continue operating like this forever.
@lilibaiyu wasn’t there a book that came out at one time only for a brief time that was to tell details of what actually happened or what the boys went through…. I vaguely remember that it was published for a very very brief time and then off the shelfs and no one heard about it again. If i look through the JYJ3 archives I can probably find something on it. I remember some comments about people wanting to purchase it but couldn’t.
Hi girls have you read this ..
” http://www.allkpop.com/2012/08/csjhs-stephanie-prepares-for-a-solo-debut-with-media-line-entertainment ”
and this part is interesting “The album will be co-produced by both Media Line and SM Entertainment for her contract term with SM Entertainment has not completely ended yet.”
So actually in the first place she want to leave SM but she can’t since she still have a contract with SM but SM let her go as long as SM still get money from her LOL somehow this is reamind me when SM ask a profit from JYJ english album in the name JYJ still have a contract with them and the funny thing is SM didnt even be a part/help co produced JYJ album, anyway do you think SM will finally let her go ? and somehow i think SM want doing the same like that to JYJ but the good things is JYJ is the boss here not Cjes.
who’s stephanie?
member from CSJH known as DBSK girl grup version, all of them can sing and talented, stephanie is the best dancer among the other member.
“So actually in the first place she want to leave SM but she can’t since she still have a contract with SM but SM let her go as long as SM still get money from her LOL”
Now why am I not surprised. They have no intentions of doing anything with her, but they want to earn money from her. Anyone who thinks this company has an altruistic vein in it’s body is not dealing with reality.
Said it before, say it again…this is a nest of vipers with no heart, no soul. For everyone there is a day of reckoning, they will have their’s one day. I’m keeping faith on that.
Well, at the very least, Stephanie is out of there, and can now get on with her life. Here’s hoping for all the best!
@BAF
Is she any good as a solo singer, do you think? I don’t know a thing about her, but you said you thought the Grace was very good and completely under-utilized at SM.
Really, these days I try to think of one good reason for still backing SM at this point. Why do people still do it? Maybe they can’t or don’t read or follow any pop music news. Maybe they are completely ignorant of events. That’s all I’ve been able to come up with.
Oh, and the perpetual “brown-nosers” – can’t forget them, I guess. But WHAT do they get out of championing this corrupt enterprise whose only focus is to bilk fans of their money? I don’t get it.
“But WHAT do they get out of championing this corrupt enterprise whose only focus is to bilk fans of their money? I don’t get it.”
Oh man, I couldn’t help it but the first thought that came to mind was “shiny meat-puppets that dance.” :-/
The fans get eye candy and everyone else gets MONEY. I think…ummm, yep, that’s about it now a-days.
All four singers are excellent. The song the group did with Jaejoong is really cool. Check them out on YT. I agree with what Eliza said onetime. SM did not know what to do with CJSH because they did not fit the cutesy model. They are four talented young WOMEN who are self assured and know how to work it, (I’m paraphrasing here, but I think I’m close Eliza –
) So, SM let them languish on the shelf and disregarded them. Which to me signifies the ahjussi pedophile direction.
Stephanie, is the one I mentioned who did a stint with the LA Ballet Company. If this company has any really good creds and I hope she weighed her options well, she should do better than she ever did at SM.
Check this out…
This is a sample of their accapella singing…Stephanie is usually the one on the right end.
@BAF2
You got it right — K-pop companies have no idea what to do with women. Little girls, they are all over that, but women seem to scare them. (Does that sound bad? GOOD!)
I was wondering why SME would let her go, but this makes perfect sense. The contracts are for “time served” and we all know how forgiving SME is, so Stephanie would have to work off the rest of it. I don’t think she would have gone back to Korea to be trashed by SME again — this is a reasonable compromise.
With SME in the mix, my Junsu – Stephanie collaboration is unlikely. But do you think I can hope that Lina is working on a similar deal? *crosses fingers*
@Eliza
I’m glad you had a chance to see the posting.
If anyone with a functioning brain sees this, they have to know what a sleaze org. this company is. There is not an altruistic bone in their body. All any of their artists are, are means to an end…to the ATM. SM could care less about these people as human bIt really is too bad the others cannot make it out. That sham duo album was such a waste of time. They are so talented.eings. One has to have an extremely cold soul – if they even have one – to behave in this manner.
The industry as a whole has to be viewed this way. But again, it does show, the aim for their marketing is using VERY YOUNG GIRLS and showcase them for purient means. They only have to have marginal singing talent. The only thing they need to be good at is posing. They become fantasies. For a country with such conservative morals, gives one pause to wonder.
Yes, my guess is as long as SME is in the mix there will be no collaboration.
Geez, I swear I’m gonna get it right or die! Should be…
“these people as human beings. It really is too bad the others cannot make it out.”
One other side note…
YGE is debuting SuPearls in September. With the voices these four have, it will be very interesting to see what he does with real talent. These four certainly do not fit the classic mold. The other group comes out in October I believe. No one seems to know what their image will be, nor what they sound like.
@BAF
(And sorry if this shows up in a different place. I’m on a laptop and I can’t get used to it! ) I listened to “Just For One Day” but to me it was kind of a vibrato train wreck. I don’t know, I guess I’m just not a fan of those “little girly” voices. The one lone exception to that is Park Bom – I really like her voice, but that’s about it for me an K-girl singers. I like some of Ayumi and Koda Kumi’s stuff (Japanese singers) and there was that one Chinese girl whose name escapes me who sang the duet with Junsu a while back – I thought she had a great voice. Oh, and I really like Baek Ji Young – I think she’s got a great voice, a little like Streisand, actually. But I suddenly realized this morning I don’t really like any K-girl groups. I mean zero. So that kind of automatically lets me out of the judging probably. lol
@animetiger
“Oh man, I couldn’t help it but the first thought that came to mind was “shiny meat-puppets that dance.” :-/
The fans get eye candy and everyone else gets MONEY. I think…ummm, yep, that’s about it now a-days.”
Oh, OK. That explains it pretty well then. lol
Seems CJeS is looking to expand.
photo/1
@lisan
I think it’s too soon for CJes to expand. Looking at this poster, it seems they’re looking for new singers, and at this time, they can barely manage JYJ. Do they even have the funds and the proper staff to train any new talent?
If they want to have new ATIS IN 3/4 years now is the time to looks for trainees.
artists.
Oh, my God–this is right in my neighborhood! I wonder if the public is invited? I’m definitely going to try to check this out. I live two blocks from Western Avenue! Awesome!
JYJ in LA right now right? OMG…what if the three of them become the judge…..i want to go there….
I have being trying to pick up a new good drama or two to watch and want some recommendations from the drama lovers here .
I’m watching Bridal Mask (aka Gaksital ) and so far I LOVE it .
saw the 2 first ep of Faith and didn’t care much for it ( I’m not really into Lee Min-ho so wasn’t one of the people who glorified it even before it came out LOL ) …
Big … I hated it …and A Gentleman’s Dignity was mehh~ … not going to finish it any time soon .
@meme & JYJ
Have you heard of the new Lee Junki, Shin Min Ah drama called “Arang and The Magistrate?” It’s Junki’s first drama since leaving the army. I can’t wait!
I am waiting for that one
.. really like Lee Junki and it looks like a fun drama .
Talking about Faith, I watched the first episode and it was fun, I like their outfit at that period (hope that’s Jaejoong’s outfit, lol) but that was just that, LMH looks good as a warrior, but if you dig more, nothing special yet and there are lot of wtf scenes (LMH has fantastic power that with a wink of an eye he knocked down the battalion of police with high powered guns, lol) but I wonder dramabeans people were so friendly and glorified the drama to bits. I was amused reading their comments, (and how they fiercely criticize Dr. Jin so much). And where are those people who were so critical about Jae’s sageuk tone, what can they say about Faith’s tone? and how about those who were eager to make fun of other dramas’ mid-teen ratings, they turned mute about Faith’s debut with lower than 10%.? Conclusion, I’ll never trust or based my judgement on DB comments, they are just simply ordinary bias viewers like me). But since I want entertainment, I think I’ll be watching Faith coming episodes, I’m a shallow drama viewer, I don’t analyze too much, ‘just want to see LMH
@kris
I have to confess to feeling a little frisson of excitement when I got my notice from Dramafever this afternoon that not only has Faith started on DF but my other current must-see, Arang and The Magistrate is also coming immediately to DF, next week I think. So there will be plenty to watch.
Faith just looks like the kind of arms I always like and the return of Lee Junki — well, I’ve been waiting for this for a while now.
I only saw one Lee Junki drama many years ago , My Girl, that was shown in a major channel here in the Phil, Mon to Fri night time slot and was dubbed with our local language so it became a household hit) and my daughters and me were fangirling on him, how we loved every moment he’s on screen, that super cute eyes and beautiful than a girl face – I’m not really Kdramas follower but I think I’ll be watching Faith and Arang, kekeke, I just love watching beautiful faces on screen!
@kris
“I only saw one Lee Junki drama many years ago , My Girl, that was shown in a major channel here in the Phil,”
Oh, you HAVE to see him in “Iljimae.” (I think it’s several places online where you can watch it.) It was a career-making drama for him and was a critically acclaimed one as well. Did you ever see the movie “The King And The Clown?” He was also great in that.
@lili
Thanks a lot for the tips, I think I’ll listen to you, we both like watching undeniably beautiful Korean men,
@Kris
You noticed too huh? I find this to be quite strange because I watched episodes 1 and 2….and I saw nothing special at all. Lee MinHo is great to look at and I can’t say no to the mane of glory but this is not some amazing or ground-breaking drama. I read the reviews on Dramabeans and I expected some honest criticism but….wow….what ass kissing. I’m not going to use this as some comparison to Dr. Jin because Dr. Jin was not a great show either but the acting was not “wonderful” and yet because it is LMH they don’t say anything. I also find that Girlfriday is a bit of a nutjob. Javabeans is a bit more fair but she has her moments too. Heads2No is an okay reviewer. She doesn’t make personal digs against the actors so I tolerate her more.
Have you guys seen “White Christmas”? Interesting premise but it ends a bit…..like a high-school drama where everything is “OK” at the end which I didn’t like….not to mention the so-so acting. It was beautifully shot though….not bad and only 8 episodes long.
I finished watching “History of the Salaryman” and I’m currently watching “Reply 1997″.
I’m anxious for the return of Lee Junki too. I only saw him in “The King and the Clown”. Never saw him in a drama.
@retrokim
You too are a slavish devotee of the MOG? (that’s mane of glory) I admit it — I too will wade through hours of the shallowest premise drama-wise for a glimpse of one. Case in point, “The Warrior Baek Dong Soo.” MOGs for days, complete with the matching gorgeous young man underneath them! This drama was pure eye-candy from start to finish. Ji Chang Wook’s MOG actually had a significant role in the drama, signaling as it did through various style changes his growing maturity and warrior gravitas. Buuut, if you didn’t give a poop about warrior gravitas, damn he was cute in this drama. I give it 5 stars for watchability, 2 stars for everything else.
ps — There’s an AWESOME Boo Hwal song in the soundtrack that is also a must possess. It’s worth watching the series for alone just to hear it all 400 times they must have played it.
LOL! You suffer too much for the handsomes! They should start picking better dramas.
@retrokim: i like headsno2′s recaps too, it’s less snarky and not so much spazzing, but i like her fair assessment. the thing with dramabeans now, is most of the old writers aren’t that active as before in dramabeans (dahee fanel, thunderbolt, samsooki… did i miss anyone?). before, they all with their own style and preference, able to make dramabeans an enjoyable place for various kinds of viewers. currently, i found the writers there have similar taste, and the site is getting more and more monotonous, thus we see the site as ‘biased’. it’s good that kaedejun (i’m not clicked with her dramas’ pick but it’s good to see her different style from jb/gf) and headsno2 (she has wider range of dramas) are still around. currently, i followed mr. x (dramatic.weebly.com)-dahee fanel-thunderbolt-serendipity convo for jtbc dramas, which i felt kinda sad because now this different side isn’t present in dramabeans anymore. it’s okay though, everyone moves on. and i’ve realized that i don’t fit with dramabeans anymore, so i’d rather stick to those reviewers who share the same wavelength with me.
i’ll just wait for end year review in dramabeans~ it’s like an annual gathering between the writers with different preferences.
@noiha
I agree. The beauty of having many different reviewers is that they have their own perspectives and they force their fellow writers to be more fair. Yes, everyone can appreciate the handsome actor or the beautiful actress but can he/she act? Is this a very original idea or well-done mainstream or simply garbage that is only getting by because one of the cast members has lots of fans? Is this drama over-hyped etc etc.
some people said Gentleman’s Dignity is good, lol I guess I won’t watch it then, I’m not interested in it anyway
have you watched Love Rain?
love rain is hilarious, seriously. lol. i had fun making fun of it with my friends (we watch it simply because we want to see yoona’s acting). it’s so cheesy and predictable, like we guess what will happen in the next episode, and it’s miraculously happen exactly like what we thought! lol. i didn’t finish it though, i have to move on. xD
@noiha
Shame on you! Watching only to poke fun at this young butterfly who is just starting to bud in this cruel and harsh world…why I would never do that! LOL!!!!!! I troll! I WOULD do that but from what people say the only good thing about “Love Rain” was Jang Geun Suk. I didn’t watch so I can’t presume much.
@retrokim
“from what people say the only good thing about “Love Rain” was Jang Geun Suk. I didn’t watch so I can’t presume much.”
And he WAS good, he was, he was. I like him so much, I know it’s not popular to do so here, but I do. As a singer – NO. Just NO. But as an actor, he’s a favorite. I also really love the actress Lee Mi Sook. She’s been just great in everything I’ve seen her in. Also, unless I’m mistaken it was the new young pop singer Seo In Guk’s acting debut. He is also adorable and he really CAN sing. (I’ve been listening to his song “Broken” all week long.” YouTube it – it’s really cool.
I saw him in “Baby and I” and “You’re my Pet”. I liked him and he has a very manly voice. Never seen him in a drama either.
@retrokim
“I saw him in “Baby and I” and “You’re my Pet”. I liked him and he has a very manly voice. Never seen him in a drama either.”
OMG, you HAVE GOT to see him in “Hong Gil Dong!” You’ll probably never be the same!
@lilibaiyu
Thanks for recommending “Hong Gil Dong”. I haven’t seen it yet, and I added it to my queue. I really like Jang Geun Suk’s acting, but I just can’t get myself to watch “Love Rain”. *sigh*
@retrokim: don’t get me wrong, lol. i’m not fond of the drama because its cheesy and predictable plot, but i don’t hate yoona particularly. ^^ in fact, we started to watch this drama because we like yoona’s appearances in variety shows. i think her acting is as awkward as many of those acting idols. ^^” it indeed helps that her character isn’t too challenging and she has such pretty features korean loved.
@noiha
LOL! I know, I was just teasing. I enjoy watching some bad acting myself. Reminds me what *not* to look for. I haven’t seen her act but I find it surprising since she was “famous” before SNSD even started because she was in some acting projects. All of this time has passed and she hasn’t improved even a little bit?
@petdino
“have you watched Love Rain?”
I watched it a couple of months ago. I liked it, because most of the actors in it were very good, the lone exception, for me anyway, being Yoona. This kid can’t act her way out of a paper bag. I mean she’s BAD. But thinking about girl singers in K-Pop this morning and reading butterfliesarefree’s comments about how they don’t have to actually sing well at all, they just have to pose and make cutesy faces when the camera is on them and at that point it occured to me that that’s what Yoona does as an actress too. She poses, she pouts, she moves her mouth around and tries to look cute. Really – it’s a pretty nauseating thing to have to watch after a while.
I did like Jang Guen Suk in his role though. He CAN act and act well and I enjoyed his character a lot. It was sort of like the role he played in “You’re Beautiful” but with more heart.
@lili
I’ve watched “You’re Beautiful” and I liked it!
Uh, I think I saw somewhere that Yoona’s been voted as one of the best idol turned actress, was it biased then? However I do expect JGS’s great acting there.. will try to watch it one day! thanks for your review though
from all drama releases this year, i still think history of salaryman is the best! the earlier episodes are hilarious but for me they’re kinda absurd… however, the later episodes are really intense i couldn’t stop to watch it! and i watched those “omake” (don’t know the korean term for it lol) several times.
for a new drama, a sitcom from tvn, reply 1997, is also good. the directing is done really well (unlike coughdrjincough). the newbies acting are passable, and i think that a-pink girl did a really awesome job as a newbie. ^^ and hoya is handsome! xD
*i couldn’t stop watching it
edit to add: that a-pink girl’s name is eunji. and i’ve just found out that this is the sitcom made by ex-1n2d staffs (pd and writer. and with eun jiwon too, how sweet), no wonder it’s so good. ^^
EunJi is also a member of A Pink. They did that song “Let Us Just Love” that I couldn’t get out of my head for weeks.
from the “Protect the Boss” soundtrack.
@noiha
I couldn’t get into History Of A Salaryman. I tried. I failed. But I have a big major prejudice and a 100% Unbreakable Rule for choosing what K-drama to watch…. There HAS to be AT LEAST 2 undeniably beautiful Korean men in them. More, of course is welcome, preferable even. But there’s gotta be 2 minimum. To my jaundiced eye, the first 3 episodes of Salaryman failed in that department, so I bailed.
haha i could shift it to either men or women. xD i think jung gyuwon’s friend is good looking (he didn’t show up too much in the early episodes though) xD
YAY! We seem to have similar tastes! I’m happy for Jung Eun Ji. I do think that maybe her character is easier for her to portray because SiWon is a young high school girl who loves idols. Eun Ji is 18…and she is an idol….plenty to draw from. Hoya was a surprise! I didn’t expect much from him or Eun Ji either but the entire cast surprised me.
Try to watch “The Chaser” is a good drama too. I like the main actor though I do not know his name.
If you haven’t seen “I Need Love 2012″ it is really good. The characterizations are more realistic and honest and the plot moves along at a nice pace.
@retrokim
NEVER underestimate the power of the handsomes! Am I right, kris?
lol
Hahahaha! I do admit that I have stuck with some dramas for less than pure reasons but I can handle dramas that don’t have as much pretty as long as they are intelligent and well done.
@retrokim
lol Not me. I go with the pretty every time!
@lili
Yes, JGS, LMH, LJK, Song Joong Ki, YC and Jaejoong are on my watchlist. Oh my, forgive my ignorance but I only know very few Kdrama actors
@kris
There are SO MANY handsome, beautiful and/or gorgeous korean actors it makes my head spin! i don’t know where they grow them, but they must have secret farms somewhere inn the countryside where herds of them are doing push-ups and getting groovy haircuts. It’s amazing!
LOL “they must have secret farms somewhere inn the countryside where herds of them are doing push-ups and getting groovy haircuts.” can’t stop smiling at this… …. high 5 @lilibaiyu
speaking of dramas, I’m watching YC’s Beautiful Love and really hate it that Avex is holding the rights.. they blocked the vids on Youtube and everywhere
No ep 1 you can see it in this channel from ep 2
http:// http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG7NfRaPSTM&feature=relmfu
[EDITED BY ADMIN] We try to reduce video embedding in the ODP. The link can be copied and pasted into a browser.
thanks for the link
I’ve watched it, I was talking about ep 10, 11, and 12 which avex blocked -_-
i like headsno2′s recaps too, it’s less snarky and not so much spazzing, but i like her fair assessment. the thing with dramabeans now, is most of the old writers aren’t that active as before in dramabeans (dahee fanel, thunderbolt, samsooki, ockoala), thus we see the site as ‘biased’. before, they all with their own style and preference, able to make dramabeans an enjoyable place for various kinds of viewers. currently, i found the writers there have similar taste, and the site is getting more and more monotonous. it’s good that kaedejun (i’m not clicked with her dramas’ pick but it’s good to see her different style from jb/gf) and headsno2 (she has wider range of dramas) are still around. currently, i followed mr. x (dramatic.weebly.com)-dahee fanel-thunderbolt-serendipity convo for jtbc dramas, which i felt kinda sad because now this different side isn’t present in dramabeans anymore.
oh well, i’ll just wait for end year review then.
wrong place. have re-posted again above.
have you all read this article? http://www.allkpop.com/2012/08/sm-entertainment-cleared-of-accusations-of-colluding-with-music-distributors
ugh, i cant believe money can buy justice, but this… how can this be?! well, maybe they didnt have that much of evidence… doesnt mean sm is ‘clear’, i think they just cant really proof that sm collude with music distributors.
What did you guys think?
honestly i dont think this has much to do with JYJ, and although i despise SM, i dont think SM is capable of paying off justice with money. Korea is not some backward country where this kind of behaviour can happen (im sure there is some corruption in the government just like there is in every government out there but in a country like korea, its very difficult for a company like SM that is constantly under the spot light and with hundreds of competitors out there to do something like this)
all this news is basically saying is that FTC had no real evidence against SM in this case so SM won this lawsuit.
if SM was able to buy justice u could bet ur money that JYJ would have been buried off somewhere long time ago, and u wouldn’t be seeing SM struggling with the lawsuit against JYJ.
@littleindogirl: ew, the comments. i don’t get them. JYJ vs SM is a different case. this is FTC. if they want to hate this case, they shouldn’t throw their hatred to JYJ. they should just throw their hateful comments to FTC, who previously ordered ALL companies (not just SM) to fix all of their oppars’ contracts — making the contract length more reasonable and protecting their oppars from getting robbed off by ANY company (not just SM). IF SM indeed colluded with music distributor companies, then it’s unfavorable not only for JYJ or other let’s-go-sue-SM artists, it’s unfavorable for other companies like JYP/YG/DSP/CUBE/Starship/Woolim/LOEN/you name it. i’m not majoring in law, but i guess that collusion isn’t something easy to prove? because usually they don’t have a written contract for that and it’s most likely a back door agreement. if FTC dared to sue SM, it means there must be some leakages of SM’s dirty play, but it’s found out to be not enough to make them guilty.
but again, they want to believe what they want to, we want to believe what we want to. if they want to think that it’s okay to sign an unfair contract as long as both parties sign it, or it’s okay to do a dirty trick as long as it’s favorable for their bias company, then let them be.
@noiha
Excellent comment. I’m tired of idiots claiming that this isn’t possible or that it has something directly to do with JYJ. I don’t think this is about what we want to believe vs what they want to believe because what we know about SME isn’t some made up fantasy. There is proof of SME’s past misdeeds and unfortunately the FTC couldn’t find conclusive proof against SME for this new transgression just like we KNOW that SME blocks JYJ (it is an open secret) and yet the courts can’t prove it.
These morons aren’t aware of what this case involves and would just rather claim this is some other JYJ plot to hurt their dear oppars. To me, that is just plain stupidity. They can’t think long term or be objective. That is seriously their loss, not just in this but the rest of their sad little lives.
I always find it interesting that folks believe those doing wrong are going to wave a banner that says, “Hey, look at me breaking the law, flaunting the rules!” Come on really? Insufficient evidence means they just couldn’t, didn’t find what was needed to make the case. Not that it wasn’t there.
I’m willing to bet, most information is verbal, and payoffs are probably in an offshore bank account. I’m of the mind, where there is smoke, there is fire, especially when it comes to SM. But that is for another day.
What should be kept in mind…the more allegations that pop up from time to time, should tell one something…there is a reason for this. I don’t trust a regulatory or judicial system that allows itself to willingly be played by this company the way it does. There is absolutely no meat to their enforcement procedures. One thing to remember, the law of averages is going to run out one day.
“I always find it interesting that folks believe those doing wrong are going to wave a banner that says, “Hey, look at me breaking the law, flaunting the rules!” Come on really? Insufficient evidence means they just couldn’t, didn’t find what was needed to make the case. Not that it wasn’t there.”
Yep! I totally forgot that JYJ’s lawyers did indeed prove that SME was interfering with JYJ’s activites when obviously KBS, MBC etc were never going to admit it. So I find myself baffled that the FTC lost this case. What the hell happened? Even if all this money is in an offshore account or the payment was in form of contracts and services how is it that these lawyers could not use circumstantial evidence (from SO many inferences) or is this different because it is between two business/government entities?
@retrokim
The problem with using circumstantial evidence, you must be able to connect the dots. If the lines between the dots don’t connect that well, a decent attorney can punch holes in the case. Also, keep in mind the standard of proof in SK may be different than what is allowed here in the States. Not to mention the fact that we have juries here, and they don’t in SK.
SK appears to have a weird set of standards that allow a lot to slip through that wouldn’t here. Since there is no strong expose style of journalism, and I mean legit here, not that nonsense from The Dispatch, it doesn’t appear as if corporate crime or governmental malfesence is high on the list in SK. Make a phone call and a story disappears.
As long as the shady side of the industry and SM in particular are allowed to blow justice off, this will be the norm until there are changes in the political structure in this country.
@noiha
So if there was no collusion, then maybe someone could explain why a major distributor would turn down a highly lucrative deal to distribute a JYJ CD, one of the more in demand items I would imagine, where they would be sure to make loads of money… so then, why??
Hell yeah there was collusion same as the blocking but there is no direct proof and so FTC lost the case. You would think that these distributors turning down JYJ would be proof enough but it is circumstantial evidence and apparently not enough to slam SME. EXACTLY the same as the Jeju Island event and the many cancelled TV appearances……that or the courts are slacking off again. I really wouldn’t be surprised. They did rule in one case that SME owed JYJ some amount of wons for their interference but that didn’t seem to do much. I get so depressed when I read these things.
I think noiha’s point was more about the idiots at AllKpop who are trying to pigeonhole this case against JYJ in order to generate more mindless hate when in reality SME’s dirty tricks could trip up ANY artist not just JYJ. They are a threat to everyone but these people are so against JYJ that they never see the bigger picture.
I think anyway….wait. Did SME actually pay the fine?
@retrokim
“Hell yeah there was collusion same as the blocking but there is no direct proof and so FTC lost the case. ”
I imagine that they have some sleazy lawyer stuck off in a back room somewhere in the SM building whose sole job it is to fully vet proposed acts of blocking and collusion for every possible way and means of deniability. Poor guy must have a fill-time nightmare job.
@lilibaiyu
LOL! Poor bastard must be paid a lot of money to keep quiet. There has been mentions of SME accounts covering questionable expenses under miscellaneous titles so this would be no different.
@ noiha
Somehow i think even when the court said the final result JYJ win the lawsuit, I believe SM will stil try to look good and SM fans will still forever depends them no matter how many evidence said SM fault. just like with JYJ and cosmetic issue, they still keep talking and braging those story to bring JYJ down no matter how many articel said this is nothing to do with those cosmetic things and they call we are to blind and the court is unfair but who is the blind one here? yes let them be…
The article states very specifically that the lawsuit was regarding price fixing, not anything related to the investigation into determining SM’s obstruction of JYJ activities. Price fixing is a method of controlling supply and demand and can be used to manipulate profits. Price fixing is very difficult to prove because, inherently, it requires a conspiracy among merchants and no one is going to be leaving behind a paper trail on that sort of thing. So don’t be alarmed, while I hate to see SM getting away with this sort of thing, this does not affect JYJ or their case.
@mkverse: thank you for your explanation. yep this case indeed has nothing to do with jyj. everyone really loves jyj apparently, that they try to bring them into this case.
Have you guys seen this article?
http://www.economist.com/node/21560605
@retrokim
Too many SM quotes to engender much credibility, I think. My other initial reaction was that maybe it’s just as well that JYJ goes global, records n the US, etc etc if the pickings are so “slim” at home.
Indeed but it does have some truth in the sense that record sales at home are nothing more than bragging rights because the artists get shafted no matter how much they sell and this desparate pile on the fat cat Japan is for purely monetary reasons. It seemed to me that the writer is not fully aware of SME’s shady past and believes the reason for this desperate expansion is solely because S.Korea just isn’t lucrative enough for label companies.
@retrokim
S. Korea, I am saddened to say it, is a tiny little country in the middle of Asia who would not even be registering on the global music map anywhere except for the pretensions, plans and MASSIVE ego of the head of SM, one LSM who has singe-handedly almost shoved the specialized genre called k-pop down the throats of people in other large industrialized nations so that finally the genre has gained some traction and is getting some press, but always the darker side of the k-pop phenom is mentioned, sometimes obliquely, sometimes not at all hesitantly. (I guess it just depends who SM has paid off) Still, as we know it is a deeply flawed system of creating worthy artists who can stand on their own musical merits and who can go head to head with the best of the best from other countries around the world. Against all odds (I think anyway) JYJ now stands on the threshold of being a real contender globally. For me it makes perfect sense for them to continue to mine the rich landscape of musical talent in the US – they deserve to work with the best. As their career unfolds we will continue to see if they figure in to the Kpop publicity machine that sM has orchestrated ONLY to benefit sM acts.
@retrokim
I’ve had the interesting experience of communicating with journalists who have just filed stories about k-pop in general and SME shows in particular. I actually once accused one of them with basically copying the SM press release and calling it a day. He wrote back and swore up and down he didn’t, but when I asked him a few pointed questions to see how deep his knowledge was about SM’s many shady practices, his response was… “I had NO idea!” Maybe western journalists just can’t imagine a company as large as SM is being this wildly duplicitous, I don’t know. What I do know is that there are probably no lengths SM will not go to to achieve “world domination.” Ironically of course, this is most likely what will expose their giant fraud once and for all.
Big Bang will be having a concert in Ph
When will be having JYJ? T-T
there’s a comment here before, but i guess it’s deleted
i guess the poster isn’t someone with pure intention either, but i gotta admit there’re few that i’ve thought before too. well, here is what i thought, sorry if i missed some questions as i forget about it.
- ‘pity play’: every other idols use ‘pity play’ trick with the fans. jyj situation (banned etc) isn’t something under their control anyway. i too agree if some people say coo is overpriced, and i admit i didn’t buy it and satisfy myself with their cds only. but hey, jyj didn’t do something like releasing single every other months, then a mini album afterwards, then an album, then a repackaged album, then japan ver, then eng ver, etc…. i’d say every idol have their own share of ‘pity play’ with their own way. if you don’t want to buy it, no one will say you’re less fan than those who buy it; so it’s up to you.
- ceo’s past: true. i also found that he said he’s unfairly accused. well, idk. lsm’s also an ex-criminal, and every other ceo probably has their own share of crimes we probably never find out. oh well, ent industry isn’t full of honesty and justice, so if any of them commit a crime, i disappointed. but not surprised. so yeah, as long as ceo stay as clean as possible while he’s working with jyj, idgaf about his past.
- cjes owner: i can also say cj is coming from changjoo lol. maybe they just didn’t go public. i mean, there’re heck loads of new company in k-ent industry, some of it i’ve never heard before. if you can also find info about those companies’ owner, then i’d find cjes odd.
for once, i never thought jyj, cjes, or even the fandom is perfect. they’re flawed. maybe i have double standards, or maybe we all have. maybe there’ll be a day i finally turns my back to jyj, idk. so far, i still can’t find any reason to ‘ditch’ jaejoong, yoochun, and junsu. i still found them admirable, so i’ve decided to embrace all the rumors came with them. if you think you can’t handle such thought provoking rumors, no one will care about you if you later hating on jyj.
@noiha
Ah, the charge of ‘pity play’ by JYJ fans.
JYJ plays their fans for pity’s sake. This is how they get their fans to support them. That was part of an article link on a kpop blog. One of the commenters felt the need to go there. But you know, given the nature of the beast, the internet is home to all kinds of species, you take some things worth a grain of salt.
I remember commenting about it and saying, JYJ is not playing me for pity. I feel ANGER for them. But pity, no. I don’t pity anyone who has the intestinal fortitude these three have. Now talk about steel cojones!
How can I pity someone who puts it all on the line so they can taste freedom? No way is that pity. That is straight out admiration!
Regarding the cost of their products. If I didn’t care as much as I do, I wouldn’t spend a dime. But I do care. I care enough to spend my money to SUPPORT these three brave young men. What they are attempting to do, is forge new lives for themselves. Paying for the fight ain’t cheap. The cost of freedom is not cheap. So, I decide what I will spend my money on, when I will spend it, and learn to live with it. That’s what grownups with jobs do. They make choices. Until I hit the lottery, that is how I will do it.
So far, each project JYJ has put out has pretty much been unique. Not a great deal of overlap. Possibly the closest would be the addition of the songs from “Their Essay” onto “In Heaven”. No biggy for me, I bought both.
You were correct, most of these idol companies and one in particular, regurgitate the works of their idols in more ways than one. I mean how sad is it that one mini album has six versions of the same damn song on it? A song that is the title of an album already!
Oh, and they love trying to trot out the, “The CEO of…has a past!” Ok, yes he does. And you know what, he paid his dues. End of story. Most everyone should get a second chance. Well, maybe not serial killers or LSM, but that’s a story for another day.
The entertainment industry worldwide has it’s good guys and it’s bad guys. But there are some practices that smell worse than others. The climate in SK and Japan right now, probably has a smell factor off the charts! When Prince was having his issues with Warner Music and wrote the word ‘Slave’ on his face, nobody tried to pillory him, or keep him from being active in the industry. He even performed on an award program with the word on his face. his music was not banned from the radio, not were his appearances on TV, or anything else.
I’m going to support CJeS because they are supporting JYJ, and doing a damn good job of it too. They have earned the trust of Jaejoong, Yoochun, and Junsu. I’m still holding out for the belief the guys have bought into the company. In three short years they have managed to accomplish what they never did under SM. This is all because the agency is doing what they are paid to do, work their butts off supporting JYJ. How can anyone be ticked off by that?
As for how I view JYJ and CJeS…they are all composed of human beings. Human beings who are fallible just like the rest of us. The major difference is they have to live their lives under the glare of the lights of fame. This is not an easy thing to do. I simply remind myself everyday, they have the right to be themselves. They owe me nothing but to be happy. When they are happy, I’m happy.
I definitely don’t feel pity for JYJ, nor do I feel manipulated by them or by CJes. I buy their products because I love their work, & to help support them in their fight against SM. Frankly, it tickles me pink that maybe some of the money I’ve spent on JYJ’s products might have helped pay for Jaejoong’s luxury kitchen goods, or Chunnie’s yacht, or Junsu’s solo album. Which I guess means that I do feel sorry – but not for what they have or do now, but for the years they lost when they were with SM, & all the things they sacrificed & lost during that time, because of SM. It always brings a huge smile to my face when I see them enjoying their life, & their freedom, now. Watching Junsu playing football is pure joy, & I’m not even a football fan! & the products I’ve bought from JYJ have always been top of the line quality, almost luxuriously so. Yes COO was expensive, but I was happy to pay for it, & I still remember the thrills I got when it arrived, when I opened it, & when I watched it. & for what you got in that DVD box set, I think it was worth the price. JYJ opened up their homes – which I still believe none of them were really comfortable doing, & allowed the camera’s, & thus us fans, to follow them in their personal lives, unscripted, to see who they really are, not the concept they’re portraying with their current CD, not some act put on for the camera’s.
As for the CEO of CJes, he did the crime & he did the time – end of story. Unless & until he misbehaves again. Given that many of the people in the S Korean entertainment industry, & Maxxie in Japan, who like to throw these old rumors around are neck high in squalid corruption right now, them pointing the finger at someone else is hypocrisy at it’s finest.
*** XIA JUNSU LA CONCERT TICKET***
I have a ticket to Junsu’s concert in LA on Sep. 2 at Hollywood Palladium.
Another friend of mine was supposed to go, but it turned out that she can’t make it.
Is anyone interested? Or does anyone know someone who may be interested?
The ticket is for standing – VIP section.
I paid $172 (ticket $150 + admin. fee $21 + FC fee $1), but I will ask only for the ticket fee $150.
The price can be negotiable for more discount as I don’t want to waste of this precious ticket!
Please contact me for more detail by email – maaug2008@yahoo.ca.
Thank you!
It is sad that jyj can’t appear on tv’s music program in order to maintain their singing abilities. But it is out of their control. I know we are starving from jyj’s new song. But i will wait patiently to a new jyj album with full qualified materials that’d meet my expectation as music fan. I’m very anticipating a mindblowing album that i will encourage jyj member and staffs to put all the efforts and resources required, take time as much as they needed. Maybe some of us are desperate to hear jyj sing? In order to tackle the hinderance of unability to sing on tv and at the same time proving their everchanging vocal abilities, what do you suggest guys? I think the solution is by jyj doing their own free mini live singing session in places possible, let’s say maybe in bum’s story, 30 minutes once in a week? They can go solo or groups in the performances, maybe singing random korean or western ballad/jazz/RnB, and we as i-fan can hope that some fancams will be allowed.. I don’t see anyone can restrict jyj from performing in their own restaurant. Except maybe the problem could possibly comes from royalties that maybe should be payed to the original singer. I mean maybe the original singer refuses to let ‘troubled group’ sing their song? Apparently, jyj still can sing their own songs.
If I hear one more person arguing how expensive the boys products are, I am going to go ape shit. Their products should be as expensive as they think fit that their worth is on the market. Each one of us has a worth on the market. If you are an artist or if you go to a job interview and take an offer, you know have an idea of how much your services/talents are worth based on your education, experiences, and talents. You are not going to accept to be paid $20, 000, when you know you are worth at least 3-5 times more. Right?
I know how much I am worth in the job market, and I know what I can ask and get for my services or if I sell my art.
I love VanGogh, Cartier, Channel, Balenciaga, but I can’t afford it, and I can’t go bitching to these companies to lower their prices because I think they are expensive; they are expensive because that’s their market value no matter if we think that the products are overpriced or meaningless. The bottom line is this: I can’t afford these things, so then I can’t get them; the same way, sometimes I can’t afford some of the boys products, so I don’t get them ( even though I would not pay tuition to get some of their stuff). Their career is in entertainment, the same way our carreers are in whatever industries for which we get paid based on the value market we set for us in that particular market with the present conditions at that time.
Would you lower your market value if your boss kept telling you that you were too expensive? ( We are not talking about economical or business crisis here). You will feel offended that you sold yourself short that you are not valued at your true worth, you will pack your backs and find a “market” that can pay you your fare share, wouldn’t you? Saying that something is expensive, it is fair, but continuously arguing back and forth about the value of something/art is discrediting the work/sweat that went in that product.
If you find something is not worth your/my money (work/sweat) don’t buy, take it back, but this wining that is soaked in entitlement is what makes me all mad.
The boys should not justify their prices, the same way and you and me should not ( and most likely we are not) justify our salary asking or the prices we for our art/talents, etc.
Some will argue that higher prices, result in low sales, and they may be right, but each product and each one of us may find a niche if we don’t manage to have mainstream sales.
I welcome your opposite POVs, what I will not welcome is for someone to tell me to think before I speak, cause I will say the same to you. You feel me?
@daebaksama
5 Stars! 5 more Stars! 5 more! 5 more!!
Seriously, you are an artist. You have been around artists all your life, you know how this shxt goes down. I don’t know who these peeps think they are that the boys have to manage every aspect of their careers according to their whims. I am trying really hard to stay away from the comments sections, but I made the mistake to read through, and got all worked up.
I am also worked up the todd akin’s words, a human with a head full of shit instead of brain.
@daebaksama
I constantly remind myself, we’re looking at some differentials in maturation levels here. Not everyone is on the same page. Got to have it, want it right now…etc….etc. One can expect only so much understanding of what the real situation is here.
People tend to forget, the guys are being supported by a company that is still in it’s infancy. It is not some huge entity that has mastered the art of deception with smoke and mirrors. No one seems to grasp the fact that production costs. One has to spend money to make it. Your consumer has to be willing to support you.
I would like those who feel the costs are so high, how would you feel if there were NO JYJ products at all? The cost to a smaller company is greater than it is for a bigger one. The bigger one also has connections that don’t dry up at the end of the day either. Reality sucks for some people.
The MEN of JYJ are no longer boys who are at the mercy of overlords. They are now responsible for their own lives and well-being. When they make decisions, those decisions are going to have impacts on more than just themselves. So what they put out, when they put it out, how they market it, and how much they price it, will be the way it goes. No imput from anyone else. Just learn to live with.
Exactly, production costs, distribution costs, economies of scale, connections, penetrating markets. So so many things to consider. What bothers me the most is this underlying feeling of entitlement to “control ” how the boys will act; maybe it is just me, and I am paranoid, but I see it over and over again.
@daebaksama
Yes, it is a matter of knowing how things really work in the music business and honestly, I think maybe 1% of all music groups are considered “successful.” I just asked my daughter, who is also an artist what she thought of it being 1% and she said “OMG, I think way less!” To me, JYJ’ career looks like the juggling act of keeping a thousand balls in the air at once because of their own desires to express themselves authentically and the insatiable demands of fans who just want more, and more, and more.
Here in the west, I’ll tell you what any artist who was as huge as JYJ is in Asia’s answer would be to these never-ending demands: the answer would be “NO. You’ll get what we decide you’re going to get when we decide to give it to you. Period.”
@daebaksama
“What bothers me the most is this underlying feeling of entitlement to “control ” how the boys will act; maybe it is just me, and I am paranoid, but I see it over and over again.”
Hi Unnie. *hugs* No, you aren’t paranoid. I see it OVER & OVER AGAIN too, & it drives me crazy. The hypocrisy of it really p***** me off too – many of the same fans who behave this way, are also the ones who support JYJ leaving SM – who controlled every little thing JYJ did, right down to what DBSK5 said on stage in between singing. & yet they don’t seem to make the connection that attempting to enslave JYJ to their whims & demands is no different to SM enslaving JYJ to their contacts to exploit every last cent out of them. In fact, given how JYJ feel about their fans, it could be considered worse because of the emotional leverage involved. Reading some of the comments from fans on the possibility of Chunnie starring in a melodrama made me want to bang my head against a wall. I know that this is a blog where peeps are free to voice their opinions, but lately with the news that both Hayato-san & Mr Egg read JYJ3, giving substance to the possibility that maybe JYJ themselves surf JYJ3 at times, it seems to me as if some fans are deliberately posting their demands & complaints here in the hopes that JYJ will see them, or that those close to them will read them & pass them on to JYJ. I’d really love for JYJ3 to be a place where Jaejoong, Chunnie & Junsu could come & feel the love & support we fans have for them, esp when Chunnie is still grieving for his father, & for all the times they face obstacles, disappointment & unhappiness. But perhaps that’s just an impossible dream.
I hear you sister; I hear you loud and clear.
I second you!
sorry but i completely disagree. u cant compare JYJ to fashion brand names becz JYJ are artists and musicians. Those fashion brand names are aimed at a specific market of the rich and wealthy millionaires and billionaires. one of the main reason those brands are constantly getting criticized by philosophers and equality advocates is that they are factors that act as boundaries dividing our society depending on ones’ wealth.
the one thing that unites ALL pple of this world together is music. its the one thing that removes boundaries and erases discrimination of colour, wealth, and ethnicity. how could u even suggest that JYJ should be seen as similar to those brands.
i would never want JYJ to be seen as a group that only targets wealthy and rich pple and causes a divide between individuals based on their money income. if JYJ wish to be real artists and entertainers then they need to ensure that they materials is within everyone’s reach.
im not saying that we shouldnt pay a dime for their photobooks or DVDs but if the biggest icons in history of music such as Michael Jackson, Queen, Beyonce, Ellton John, Maddona..etc always ensure that their products (music, DVDs, tickets..etc) is within the monetary limit of the normal average person then its not fair that CJeS is making it so difficult for fans to support JYJ especially when they are aware of how difficult it is for us to see them since they are not allowed on TV shows yet.
@Sailor Jiji
You are completely missing the point of what @daebaksama was saying. & for the record, Madonna got smashed recently because of the outrageous cost of her concert tickets in Europe, & in particular for charging a fortune for an intimate show in Paris where fans paid the ticket price for a 2 hour show, but she only performed for 45 minutes. Singers like Nelly Furtado, Kylie Minogue, Janet Jackson, et al have performed private shows for millionaire/billionaires, getting paid $1 million dollars for their one off performance. Nelly Furtado was pressured into returning her $1 million fee to Colonel Gaddafi (a known dictator & murderer of many of his own people), after it came out earlier this year that she had done just such a private show for his son’s birthday party – the son was a vicious rapist & murderer btw… My point being that just because most music icons keep their products within the cost range of their fans, doesn’t mean they aren’t raking it in elsewhere, & not necessarily ethically. & more to the point, ALL of these music icons, & esp the ones you named, are backed up by huge music companies who have been in the industry for years, can afford to mass produce their products without having pretty much the entire industry of their own country & their 2nd biggest market (Japan), blocking them at every turn, can promote & advertise freely, & can pick & choose which manufacturers, producers, distributors, publishers, etc they want to work with, etc, etc. I’m not saying fans don’t have a right to complain if the product is faulty, but complain to the right people, don’t bash the artists.
This might have meandered off the point a little bit! I’m really tired & only logged on again to see if I can vote for Jaejoong in the best-idol-turned-actor-poll, but JYJ3 being it’s usually addictive self, here I am! I should stop typing now….
Thank you for the post. That is exactly what’s been going through my head.
Don’t forget also the fact that they are blocked, blacklisted, & are cornered in all of their activities.
Instead of having local staff, & local production company they are forced to use what they have which increases the cost of everything they will produce. If angry fans have the energy & time then direct your anger to the real cause of this problem.
i was a bit reluctant about posting this but i feel that its better to let out in the open so that fans can discuss it reasonably.
What do you think of CJeS as a company?
like i said in the Hayato blog update page, im very grateful to CJeS for sticking with JYJ and supporting them against all the problems they are facing. However, I can’t help but feel that the company is no equipped with the right resources and professional attitude to support artists like JYJ.
i have been watching CJeS closely after JYJ left SM in hopes that CJeS would do a much reasonable job with them considering that JYJ themselves chose to work with this company. but over the last 3 years there have been way too many problems where CJeS have displayed their lack of professionalism.
one of which is the lack of a ability in doing a decent job of organizing JYJ concerts/showcases/fanmeetings. this didn’t happen just once or twice but many times. issues with the distribution of the tickets where some had to spend huge amount of money to purchase them while others ended up being given a free entry into the venue on the day of the event. disorganization at the venue in terms of seating plans and view. many JYJ fans actually left the fandom becuz of those issues (remember the Asia showcase mess where JYJ came in late and tired and only performed for half of the time, and fans who got free tickets at the door ended up with better seats that those who paid over $100 to get good seats). some venues (like the one in Spain and US) were very dirty and had broken down chairs. In Spain, many fans complained about CJeS ignored the rude and intoxicated behaviour of the dancers’ family and friends who kept making drinking alcohol and yelling out.
the other problem is probably the most important one, and its the one related to how expensive JYJ’s materials are. paying over a $100 just for a photobook and over $400 for a DVD is too much for most pple. Majority of JYJ’s fans are young teenagers and students so its beyond difficult for them to purchase such items. in the end this has a negative effect on JYJ becuz it makes pple think that only rich pple can enjoy supporting JYJ. when JYJ were still with DBSK SM released Bonjure Paris and that costed me $30 only including tax. in a way this encouraged young fans to further support DBSK becuz the price wasnt that hard to pay for.
now CJeS is isolating fans and making it seem like its being young fans’ abilities to support and have fun with JYJ’s materials.
Beyonce’s I AM DVD which included incredible highly advanced filming of all songs performed AND bts real-life clips of Beyonce on her world tour visiting other countries and talking about her personal life costed me less than $20 even though the quality of the vid and length was much more superior than any of JYJ’s DVDs.
finally, i have a problem with the quality of the dvds and photobooks. we all know what happened with the recent photobook so im not gonna bother mention it again but this again shows lack of professionalism by CJeS. if ur gonna make fans pay over $100 for a photobook then they should have checked every single copy to make sure that those customers are happy becz right now JYJ need all the fans they can get.
JYJ cannot afford to lose any more fans!
i know some will hate me for posting this but i want to know what u guys think about this! its not the first time CJeS has been in this position and unless fans complain, then nothing will change except for JYJ loosing more fans.
@ Sailor Ji Ji
CJes is a relatively new company so I will give them some slack. I, for one, think they could have handled some things differently, but I am extremely grateful for what they’re doing. I mean with JYJ being blocked, they have done some amazing things, and keep giving fans access to JYJ. As for international events, I think all companies (including the Big 3) have had problems organizing international events. Things operate differently from country to country. An example of this would be the first American showcase. That was not Cjes’s fault. If I correctly remember, the reasons why JYJ had to pay for the concerts was because of visa issues (I think it was something dealing with how long they were officially JYJ).
I, like you would like for JYJ’s products to be cheaper so that I could purchase them all, but I cannot since I am a mere college student, but I think this also due JYJ being blocked in the entertainment industry. It is extremely difficult for CJes to even find companies to produce JYJ’s products.
If JYJ are losing fans over this, so be it. The way I feel they weren’t fans in the first place. Our roles as fans are to support our favorite artists. If a fan wants to leave just because they cannot afford to purchase a product or because of organization issues (that JYJ has no part of), then I think it’s best to leave. If I remember correctly, we’re fans of JYJ not CJes.
But I can undertand where you are coming from. I hope I don’t sound as if I’m biting your head off. ;D
“CJes is a relatively new company so I will give them some slack”
Yes c-jes is a new company but they profits are as high as a big one… i means hey just JYJ album sales last year were higher than JYP (with all they artist) one of the big 3… i so yeah it is time to them to think about adding quality to their products.
As for international events, companies are in equality here… there is not blockage here (outside Asia) but still c-jes choose to work with the cheapest one.
“If JYJ are losing fans over this, so be it. The way I feel they weren’t fans in the first place”
wrong people who love them can also get tired and mad and can choose no to spend they money in JYJ stuff .. and looking JYJ digital sales we can say JYJ cannot afford to lose any fan because general public are not really into them.
@alexaischunsa
If a fan is a fan of JYJ they should continue to support JYJ. If they don’t want to spend money on JYJ products then that’s their choice. However, if fans are ready to leave the fandom because they don’t like how CJes is running things, then they’re not the type of fans JYJ needs at the moment. Being in this fandom is not going to be easy because of JYJ’s status. JYJ don’t need fickle fans who don’t want to support them because they don’t agree with how Cjes is running things. I don’t necessarily agree with how Cjes operates when it comes to certain things, but I am grateful for what they have done. When everyone in the entertainment business were afraid to touch JYJ, they decided to take them in.
@sailor jiji
I think the disconnect happens between C-jeS and some fans because fans fail to take into account how extraordinarily difficult it is for C-jeS to do any one little thing, let alone run the multi-faceted careers of these three fantastically popular and successful artists, JYJ. because of all the blocking that SM does. It’s in every phase of the running of a music career – it covers all of the various aspects of making and distributing CDs as well as running concerts. It takes 3-4 times as long to accomplish any one task. It is in short, a NIGHTMARE for these people to try to allow JYJ to function inside SKorea. Maybe fans don’t realize what is going on here.
As to the cost of JYJ product, there is no large entertainment corporation backing them, there is no record company bankrolling their CD production costs, touring costs and video costs. They themselves pay for these things unless they can get various commercial sponsors to pay for them. Therefore their products must be more expensive. It’s simple economics. These 3 independent artists need to charge a certain amount in order to pay costs and make a profit.
As to “losing fans” – isn’t that completely up to the individual fans themselves? If they go, they go. What can you do? JYJ is under so many unfair constraints as it is, it seems unfair and rather cruel really to criticize what they do manage to do, against all odds, and tell them “Still Not Good Enough.” Fans perhaps should get the facts, grow up a bit and not be quite so selfish about wanting what they want when the members of JYJ are trying SO HARD to please them, in spite of everything SM can throw at them to stop them altogether. Keep in mind: this is not a normal situation – JYJ are not artists like other Idol groups. They are functioning IN SPITE OF everything that the biggest entertainment company in SK can do to stop them. Shouldn’t that be part of the equation in fans deciding whether to stay or go?
And if they go, then that’s OK too. There are thousands of international fans, more every day, joining the ranks of fans for JYJ. If SKoreans refuses to acknowledge them and fail finally come to their defense because of antiquated Confuscian principles, they will become an international sensation who once hailed from SK and nothing more.
@Sailor JiJi
This again is going to be one of those situations where people are going to agree to disagree.
JYJ IS BEING BLOCKED AND BLACKLISTED IN THE ENTIRE MUSIC INDUSTRY IN SOUTH KOREA AND JAPAN! IT HAS BEEN THIS WAY FOR THREE YEARS!
Ok, I got that off my chest.
If you think CJeS is the only agency supporting an artist that has problems, I beg to differ. Glitches happen all the time, even to the best. CJeS are newer, smaller, and limited as to what they can do. A couple of people have already mentioned the issues they have to deal with, so I won’t restate them. But what makes them different is that like the Little Engine That Could, they don’t give up. For this, I am very grateful. Because this means JYJ are going to still remain relevant, even when others wish them ill.
The artists you mention all have backing of record companies and management companies who have resources coming out of the wahzoo. They don’t have to bat an eyelash to try and accomplish anything. The cost of their products is pretty standard, yes. For the most part, in their domestic markets, their costs are rather stable. So, the prices are going to be stable and lower. But make no mistake about it, the concert tickets of these artists are not any cheaper than those for JYJ. Trust me, they are charging the same if not more, and in larger arenas. Well ok, Michael Jackson isn’t.
I have not seen the recent photo book, I’m guessing you are talking about the Hawaiian vacation one. But every printed material I’ve received with the music and dvd products I’ve purchased have been first rate. I have absolutely no complaints about them. When all the companies that work with the big music management agencies in SK stop kissing a$$ and accept a job from CJeS for JYJ, then we can talk. But as long as JYJ’s people have to work with those who are willing to do so, then it is what it is. You are complaining to the wrong people.
And if you think everything published comes pristine perfect with a bright shiny bow wrapped around it, guess again. I’ve purchased items in other situations, and found some disparity, but then I decide whether or not to support again. It depends. The problems at the venues, this is what the promoters are responsible for. If there are enough complaints, then they don’t work with that promoter again. Why not complain to the promoter? I know I do when I have an issue.
But here we go again. Sure as shooting, just as something significant comes up regarding a member of JYJ, or all the members of JYJ, complaints about CJeS pop up like clockwork. It’s getting to be just about automatic. One can set their watch on it.
For those who choose to leave JYJ’s side because of a few glitches, let them go. War is not pretty or glamorous. Make no mistake, that is what JYJ and this fandom are engaged in — WAR! It does not come with balloons and streamers. War gets down and dirty. Sometimes you don’t even have enough rations to get you through the tough times. You have to make do with what you have. That’s why they call it survival training. So, if you are not tough enough to handle being in a war, then the frontlines are not the place for you to be.
When the day comes that the entire music industry in SK stops treating JYJ as if they are pariahs and criminals and affords them the respect they are due, then we can talk about how lax things are or aren’t. But until that time comes, and we all know it won’t be anytime soon, please try and understand, there is still a learning curve.
@Sailor Jiji
RE: ticket pricing & the cost of JYJ tickets being exorbitant to every other musical act out there – Bruce Springsteen recently toured America. The cost of his tickets was in the hundreds of dollars to begin with, but then a legally approved secondary site bought block tickets & then re-sold them to fans for as high as $1500 – per ticket!! As for your example of Beyonce’s products being both cheaper & better quality, see my reply above, & esp Mummy-hen’s & Lili’s.
WHY IS IT SO FREAKING EASY FOR FANS TO ALWAYS COMPLAIN ABOUT SM BLOCKING EVERY SINGLE LITTLE THING THAT JYJ DO, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, EVEN EASIER FOR THEM TO COMPLETELY IGNORE THE CONSEQUENCES THAT NON-STOP, ALL ENCOMPASSING BLOCKING HAS ON EVERYTHING JYJ DOES???
@Sailor JiJi
Because you said so manything at once ,so I have to follow your step by step and ask you back,ok,we need to slow down a little bit here,you and me..:D
About the Asia showcase ,which one you want to mention here -were you there or read it somewhere?*JYJ came in late and only performed for half of the time !* you were not there ,I know for sure now,after I read your post again,because I was there ,1 of JYJ showcase in USA,they were not sing all of the song in the ALBUM…and that was the reason some people told you that they*perfomed half of the time*…oh man…
About the showcase in US,the tickets was not for sell after they got a problem with visa issue,people who bought the tickets got their refund,I only had to paid for my parking lot ticket & for printed my ticket at home,everyone get free ticket to went there…who told you they had to paid $100.00 and got a bad seat?
In US ,they got showcase at NY -at Hammerstein Ballroom;Las Vegas at the Performing Arts at the Planet Hollywood Resort and Casino & Los Angeles,California at USC’s Galen Center,(University of Southern California),where did they got *dirty and broken chairs?* with the face of 3 of that places, you need to prove it with some proof !!!!
In Spain,when you came to other country,you must follow the rules,and you need to let their people do the justice,that means the security ,the tickets.. etc etc…why *some fans * brought Cjes in here about*Cjes ignore the rude& intoxicated behaviour of the dancers…* you’re kidding me right? .
JYJ’S materials expensive because of what …let me tell you ,the price you buy their stuff in Korea will lower a little bit,but when they ship it out -the price is higher for the tax of import stuff,and which the product from Japan, ,the price will be higher because the quality +the total cost in Japan is expensive & because they ship it into Korea and then they ship it out to your country ,it was 2 time of the tax and the cost to make it….etc etc..
With the songs they wrote by themself they had to pay for the right to use it and when they use it to product -they got to pay for tax one more time,with the song they share they only have to pay for the writer …etc etc..
Another sister already give you the explanation about those US singers you mention,I don’t need to say anything any more
I ordered the photo book ,but I have to wait for it arr.,so if my book is get the same problem with *some people*,I will let them know,now I don’t give out my comment yet,about the fans will leave after they get their book, let them go,but I believe who was staying with JYJ till now ,they ‘ve got their head,their heart stronger than that,they will not keep silent and leave so easy because of some mess ,some rumour…
oh man,so tired,I need to get some fresh air…
Hug MINMIN!
@murasaki *hug* you back…,sister
Butterfly kiss for my little chickadee.
@butterfliesarefree2 *kisses and hugs* you back,Mommy..
I am agree i was so permissive and supportive with c-jes (i think people know that since i post here a lot) but now i am tired tired and mad…
@Sailor JiJi
Where did you get this information? What are the OT5/Homin sites that you visit where you state all these things as FACT when MINMIN clearly unveiled all this info as false? If you have legitimate complains about CJeS by all means let them know but don’t make stuff up. Also please don’t think you are being “brave” by letting us know of your unpopular opinion about how much you think CJeS sucks based on complete lies. That is just risable.
A lot of fans are constantly complaining about CJes these days, to the point where it’s tediously repetitious. So instead of complaining, attacking & b******* to & about CJes via fansites & twitter, why don’t all of the fans who have complaints try something proactive, & possibly productive, & send your complaints directly to CJes via email? Band together & send a group email with your signatures, send individual emails, & keep sending them until CJes listens & responds. Stay polite & on point – remember that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, & please for the love of God, don’t shame Jaejoong, Chunnie & Junsu by behaving obnoxiously or rudely. Voice your concerns, & your complaints to the people who CAN do something about them, instead of lashing out left, right & center, attacking anyone/everyone close to JYJ, & continuously subjecting the rest of us to your rants.
Very well said!
Please promote that Junsu CD is in Barnes and Nobles for all the US fans!
… Go and order it there! … 
Whut!!!??? You saw it in what city! I’ll go check my BN after work tonight! I really hope that I can pick it up! Thanks for the heads up!
BTW, is anyone going to Junsu’s concert in NYC next week? I am still trying to make it work, but I was wondering if people are meeting up beforehand? I’ll be coming from DC so, I’ll be getting there early.
They have it online and if you go there you can pre-order it at the desk and they will send you to your house or you can pick it up there.
… I order it online 
… Search for Xia and it appears there 
…. I bought my The beginning there and asked them to send it home cause they dont have it physically at store. But, I highly recommend to buy there cause that will help to keep carrying it there for the future.
@denza
And of course it’s also on iTunes now, although there – no photobook etc. But it is instant and environmentally friendly.
Thanks! Just ordered it!
@lisan
“Hi BAFand lili, looks around, am I even allowed to say hi to you guys, lol, especially now that we have been called a clique.”
lol Oh, I know, I hear that from time to time. I don’t get it because there’s no self-respecting clique that would have me, probably. Oh, no wait – I was once offered membership in the Crabby Old Crazy Lady clique.
But just in case I have somehow mysteriously and without my knowledge gained entry into an exclusive clique of all the best and the brightest here on JYJ3, I hereby extend the invitation to everyone else on the list to join our clique. Please join. It’ll be fun.
Especially you, Lisan – we gotta recruit you immediately for the clique.
It’s also on Amazon.com
Why is the ODP still from 8/11?
I guess whoever was on duty last weekend, fell asleep.
@BAF
I spent about 15 minutes looking for it while I was on my trip last week. I figured I just kept missing it. Finally, I went…”no… it’s just not here!” lol
You have no idea how hard it is for me not to crack a joke about those 15 minutes. 15 really?
Ok, I’ll admit to 5, but that was all.
@BAF
I know! lol But I blame Shana’s Mac laptop – I could not get used to the mouse thingie in the center. So everything I did took 4 times as long. Also, when I wanted to reply to someone’s comment from an email it wouldn’t take me to the comment like on my computer. It would just take me to the beginning of the topic. AARRGGHH! maddening.
Ok, I’m going to cut you some slack. I know, my experience using laptops is VERY limited. Still plan on getting one in the distant future.
I kept staring at the screen, rubbing my eyes thinking I was seeing things. Then I thought oh, they’ll put up the new one the next day. So, we’ll just wait until this Saturday and get a new one. Right, adminnies? 
Hi BAFand lili,
looks around, am I even allowed to say hi to you guys, lol, especially now that we have been called a clique. I guess being with you sage women, is a good clique to be in. Ha, JYJ fandom, never a dull moment, really. I haven’t even been around here, a lot recently and just by posting on the petition post, I am getting the usual attacks from the peanut gallery.
btw, those the lower half of the ODP, get dark for you guys too?
@lisan
I’m letting everyone blow off their steam, and deal with whatever issues they have. I’ve passed the age where I belong to a clique. I don’t feel any animosity towards anyone for thinking, feeling or commenting whatever they choose. I’m just hoping that at the end of the day people remind themselves what is really important here…supporting the members of JYJ.
Life is too short. See yah around!
@BAF
“’m letting everyone blow off their steam, and deal with whatever issues they have. I’ve passed the age where I belong to a clique.”
Please join our clique, sis. It’s gonna be weird if you’re the only one on JYJ3 who’s not in it. I think everybody’s gotta be in it who posts here. No exceptions!
Hey Sis,
Oh, I’m not going anywhere. Now you know me better than that. And I’m not saying I won’t comment. I just see all the fracturing being so counterproductive. The enemy is outside, not inside.
Remember a while back we discussed as a group, ideas to bring to the attention of CJeS? It was mentioned to pull together a group who would submit the ideas. People posted ideas, but there was no follow-up. This was months ago. It seems as if the only way to get folks engaged is to have drama. Why is this?
Think about how that could have been a pivotal point without all this drama. It just seems to me, so many wasted opportunities come and go. I hope we can learn from this, that’s all.
@BAF
“Oh, I’m not going anywhere. Now you know me better than that. And I’m not saying I won’t comment. I just see all the fracturing being so counterproductive. The enemy is outside, not inside.”
The clique? Just a little joke, of course. Having EVERYBODY in it is hardly fracturing, no? And anyway, I think I’m probably too opinionated to ever be a good candidate to join much of anything. I guess it just still must be hard for some posters to see the wide range of opinions we have here, all cylinders firing, percolating along nicely, giving rise to new ideas and new ways to look at things and they still get upset and feel marginalized because that has been the immediate response to a dissenting opinion on so many of the other K-Pop sites like Soompi and 6Theory, etc. We are trying something new here and not everybody who comes understands what’s going on at first.
As far as the wisdom of “bringing things to the attention of C-jeS right now, I think we’re just going to have to agree to disagree on that one. As much as I’m all for making one’s voice heard as a consumer if there’s a legitimate problem, that’s for normal life and normal circumstances and what is going on with C-jeS right now is far from business as usual. We are talking David vs Goliath here.
So far they’ve managed to keep their heads above water and accomplish a few things in spite of everything SM and AVEX have managed to throw at them, but they need our encouragement and support, not our complaints and petitions explaining how incompetent they are. The Jaejoong Only fanclub went the ‘Loud, Repeated Complaints to C-jeS’ route a while back as a matter of fact. You remember how welcomely received that was, right? If I thought for a minute that C-jeS was just sitting on their hands being lackadaisical about running JYJ’s career I’d be right with you. I don’t. I think they are frantically trying to keep pace with events and do the best they can do in the face of constant maddening interference. Sending them a list of things they could do a whole lot better, no matter how politely and cheerily worded, would just be kind of cruel at this point and far from helping, I think it would further demoralize an already embattled group of people.
And of course, needless to say, it would upset the members of JYJ terribly. Who’s in favor of doing that?