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Another rough week in fandom-land. I’m all talked out.
@springbok7 oh ,I think I will do that too ,start from today ,just*click and …run*….ok,thanks ,sister..
(but still…keep wondering…*can I do that?*)
LOL! well even i’m not able to follow my own advice sometimes…. says the one who just spent the last three… no make that four hours reading over the last three ODPs that I’ve been too sick to look at LOLOL!
I swam thru’ the debates and survived! And I actually did that for many times but did not join in the debates except for that 2 lines of my decision I typed on my Twitter. XDXD
Rather spazz and drool at the beautiful pics instead ^__^
Hello everyone !
I was wondering why so much people are so fan of SME.. I mean so lots of people and for a mere company !
In fact I think that they are not all hardcore fans of SME but they are rather fans of the bands since I
always read things like ‘SME is not that bad since they give us DBSK/Shinee/GirlsGeneration/SuperJunior’.. So what happens is that they think that SME is their bands, not a promoter or an agence. Now what define a fan ? Their desure to support their band no matter what, to always give them love, to try to understand them and protect them, well in one word to be blind or rather to accept every mistakes or flaws from their bias as a part of their charm.
This is like Yoochun says once: he doesnot monitor his members but only gives them support and love. That is what you do when you are a fan of a band/a star/an artist.. But a company like SME ? I find it too much, too scary…
Well of course CJES is not like SME, they are x times better and more trustworthy since this is JYJ that employ them. But still when I read ‘Cjes IS JYJ’ I can’t help to feel uneasy.
Because, yes JYJ has surely a big part in Cjes but they are not controling everything in the compagny, they can’t be aware of all the details, I mean why engaging CJES if that was the case ? So Cjes is quite independent. That means Cjes is not JYJ and vice versa. Thus criticizing Cjes will not mean criticizing JYJ..
What does that imply for us ? For me it implies that I am a fan of JYJ but a customer of Cjes. As a customer I will always except the best or if the best is not possible for x reasons I will want to be heard at least since I think that communication is the key for a smooth relationship. And I will surely be critical because well this is business. As a fan, I will just love and support my bias and band through all their hardships. Since I will believe that they are the best (and they ARE the best) I will not tolerate any bashing. Even if I try to be critical I will fail because for me love is blind or more precisely love is compliant.. I know that Jaejoong is human i.e. imperfect but he remains for me perfect in his imperfections. I don’t feel the same for an entity despite all the respect that I have for it : when there is a flaw in it I want it to be fixed.
Just my viewpoint.. Peace
I’m not sure that JYJ has no control over CJeS. That is part of the great debate, and I tend to think they do have a controlling share over the company. After all they invested their own money to build a recording studio at CJeS, and while they may have done as a thank you like they did for the dance company, I believe it’s because they have some proprietary stake in CJeS. And little things also make me think they have control, for instance ‘In Heaven’ video, JJ and Yoochun decided that Junsu should do the video, typically, that is something a management company would make decisions on.
Remember No Doubt, the band, they had problems with their record label constantly pushing to make Gwen Stefani the star and putting the other members in the background, they even wrote a song about it, but I don’t get that kind of feeling from CJeS, it really seems like JYJ get a ruling say in every aspect of their careers so I wouldn’t discount that they are possibly majority shareholders of the company with enough weight to make decisions about the company.
I have the same feelings like you too. I won’t be even surprise nor shock not whatever if there’s ever as such news that JYJ owe part of CJeS’s shares.
My understanding is JaeChunSu (JYJ) are the artists, CJes is a management company hired by JYJ to manage them. So as managers they are doing the following:
a) Develop contacts with individuals and organizations, and apply effective strategies and techniques to ensure their clients’ success.
b) Keep informed of industry trends and deals.
c) Collect fees, commissions, or other payments, according to contract terms.
d) Arrange meetings concerning issues involving their clients.
e) Confer with clients to develop strategies for their careers, and to explain actions taken on their behalf.
f) Conduct auditions or interviews in order to evaluate potential clients.
g) Negotiate with managers, promoters, union officials, and other persons regarding clients’ contractual rights and obligations.
h) Schedule promotional or performance engagements for clients.
i) Manage business and financial affairs for clients, such as arranging travel and lodging, selling tickets, and directing marketing and advertising activities.
j) Obtain information about and/or inspect performance facilities, equipment, and accommodations to ensure that they meet specifications.
k) Prepare periodic accounting statements for clients.
l) Advise clients on financial and legal matters such as investments and taxes.
l) Hire trainers or coaches to advise clients on performance matters such as training techniques or performance presentations.
JYJ paid CJes to do those works for them
And yes, I agree with you JYJ is not equal to CJes.
@jaejae, I think the debate is the possibility that JYJ may have some ownership. It could be like Jae and Yoochun who are co owners of the restaurant bum’s story, they hire a manager and staff to run the business, but as the owners, if they decided tomorrow to change the concept of the menu, or change the location of the restaurant, they could do that. That’s the type of freedom I suspect JYJ have with CJeS which is very unusual for management companies in south korea.
@_Jaemila_
No offending ^^
Lol, I love to see SME fixing their flaws too.
Stop hindering JYJ from appearing in public broadcasting. see how long this takes to get fixed as you were saying. Now that will be something, I would spend time to trace down the culprit, and keep records to clean up their bribery and the price fixing between the big 3.
Peace
You know its weird but I can kind of relate to that.. I am actually a fairly new cassie… I was first an ELF (part of me still is) but then I just randomly watched a video with DBSK in it and I absolutely fell in love with them.. Late finding out about the split even though I didnt know them I was still kind of heart broken but I mean hey if they are happy in their seperate ways then so am I. Plus JYJ makes EPIC music in my opinion without the help of SM. But what I noticed is that when I was a fan of ELF.. I was like obessed
its weird but Biasses really do play account. I thought because ELF was SM that I had to support SM as well.. so that they could help ELF out? Its weird but thats how it is. I really like how CJES gives them the freedom to express themselves… I wish they were given more opprotunies to pursue music in korea but they are venturing out now to bigger things. 
i was first an ELF too, and a tiny part of me still is (super soft spots for certain members)
for some reasons, i felt like SJ really relied on their fans since SM don’t care about them much, and i know many ELFs thought so.
I’m a new k-pop fan this year, and have different categories of groups that I like. The two I liked the most, immediately, don’t really exist anymore, SS501 and DBSK. As a new fan, it’s been fairly easy for me to separate the past from the present Mostly because I wasn’t around to watch these two groups as young kids starting out. But I do get a heartache listening to their older songs, knowing that, not only have these guys gotten older, but their groups have dissolved (yes SS501 still says it is together). But, as a newer fan, I can listen to KHJ’s singles and get great pleasure, like with Xiah’s phenomenal work, I appreciate the artists they are now. I don’t dwell on how tired KHJ looks, or Xiah’s weight. I see them as individuals, without all the baggage of who they used to be, when they were younger, and with their entire group.
Partly due to my own tastes in music and partly to support the boycott, I rarely listen to the major groups, especially SM managed ones. But, I equally, don’t like the controversies I run into among fans. I just voted my first time ever for Xiah on eatyourkimchee and for classical k-pop Bohemian on MNET. I’m not much of a joiner, but felt I owed both of them, since I value their music so much, and want them to excel.
This fighting distresses me though, and I know JYJ fans have a lot of reasons to be disappointed, or feel deserted or suspicious. I tried watching some of the HoMin videos and the fan wars were vicious. A few of us on Xiah’s videos try to moderate a more peaceful tone and it seems to work, most of the time. But it gets a little tiring, even when you try to ignore it. And it’s not just the trolls or haters, it’s the hard core attitude of the fans. Maybe being a long-time fan gives a person entitlement, but it shouldn’t be at the expense of the artist’s own sensitivities and struggle. Xiah is working his buns off (and can I just say it, at last, that “duckbutt” is not something I would ever call someone as an endearment) and fans detail that he speaks “Engrish” much better than he used to. The fans say things that embarrass even me, I can’t imagine what he must feel. Several have questioned Bruce Vanderveer’s interest in Xiah’s fans, suggesting he is doing it for personal interests. I wonder how some of these things come up………
OK, it looks like I’m the first post for ODP. I threw this out to get you started. Have a go at me!
@Bonnie Lou
Hi and welcome. We’re glad you’re here. I’m sure that once you get acclimated to our style, you’ll love JYJ3 as much as we do. Here we believe in civil discourse, in lively conversation and in expressing our views in an unhostile environment. If you’ve been to YouTube or Soompi or 6theory lately, or God forbid AllK-Pop, you’ll know that there it’s either mindless babble and one-liners or flames of destruction for an opposing view.
I enjoyed your comments and I too have despaired regularly over the fanwars. I’m not much of a joiner either as a rule, but I do have opinions and I love JYJ and support them completely and I always will. Enjoy the lively dialog here and post regularly. We’d love to get to know you.
Cheers!
Lilibaiyu – Thanks for your nice words. I’m gearing up for NYC Thursday night, trying to beg Flowsik to drop in for a shout-out. Automatic confirmed he will be at LA concert! And bless their hearts, one fan yesterday, said in the same sentence, “love you my Duckbutt, your Engrish has improved so much.” Guess I’ll just get used to it!!!!
hi everyone..
i jst drp by to greet evryone.
hve a great weekend n weekdys ahead ……i knw
we just gt xhausted by d recent controvrsy/issue in our JYJ family..let us b strong.. <3
[drama spazz]
i think this article is quiet interesting: http://enewsworld.mnet.com/enews/contents.asp?idx=13305. anyone watch either “arang” or “faith”? i still watch “arang” and quiet enjoy it because the leads are adorable. my only issue with “arang” is with the cheap-looking cg/set, as i found the story and the mystery enveloped it are exciting… but i guess that isn’t the case with other viewers. ‘faith’ is also previously criticized for the cg (http://enewsworld.mnet.com/enews/contents.asp?idx=13037), and overall “visual embarrassing moment”. what do you think about that?
@noiha
I’m watching “Arang” too and I really like it so far. True the CGI is not top of the line, but I doubt a TV show would have the budget for it that a film would have, so I’m just going with it and in the meantime enjoying looking at Yoo Seung Ho – such an adorable kid. (Last saw him in The Warrior Baek Dong Soo.)
I love Lee Jun Ki (always have) and The $1,000,000,000 Smile is back from the army of sure. Yay! I also love Shin Min Ah – I’ve liked her in everything I’ve seen her in so far. The story is interesting so far and amazingly, LJK seems to have vastly improved as a comic actor! Double YAY!
With “Faith” – frankly, I’m worried. The preview I saw for it looked outrageous but so far, everyone I’ve read who’s seen it has sad it’s a thumbs down and the only thing that saves it is Mr Pretty, Lee Min Ho. Since i’m not that big of a fan of his in the first place, this isn’t much to hang a whole series on, for me. BUT, since I generally like this genre of drama, I’m sure I’ll check it out at some point.
Hi noiha, I’m watching Faith, have to catch up with Arang later. I personally hadn’t noticed the production glitches – anyway, we know the dramas aren’t high tech, anyway. But, I like Faith’s martial arts scenes (I’m a Jet Li junkie) and both Faith and Bridal Mask have used the flying wires, which I like! Min Ho’s acting is off the charts. Such a young actor, and he pairs so well with the lead, who is 10 years older and has a kid! He is very mature! Oh, did I say I am a big fan of his? Criticize the effects all they want, the cast is great (king and princess excellent, finally she is likeable in a role), the new actor (the boy who does the acrobats and runs fast) is good, and plenty of other eye-candy! Min-Ho alone will blow this drama off the rating charts, before it’s over! People first scoffed at Bridal Mask, and see what happened! P.S. – are you waiting for the 2nd BOF prince in City Quest, like me?
Oh that is going to be really awesome ^^ I would love doing that. <3
From the start ,I didn’t come & read in here *the open discussion post * …I didn’t have time ,& I don’t want to get into any serious talk too ,it always make me tired & sick..
But time after time,days after days ,I think I must say something ,everyone -we’re all love JYJ,that’s the reason we’re all get in here,(we became a family ,a family is always have some problems,but there always have a good time too ,right?)We’re staying here from the start ,We Cry TOGETHER, We Laugh TOGETHER, we do all know that we will enjoy every STEP that JYJ gonna take , with all the tears and smile….And then,if we want to keep this family ,we have to protect our boys,protect our strong bond ,like our real family,We must pay more careful attention to what we have heard,what we read…I saw some new name,new peolple wondering around here ,with some bad very bad comments,they were trying to get attention – even make up some bad news if the truth is not bad enough and build up some lies to start a war…When I came straight to them and asked for the proof,they never ever give me back the answer…!!!! I’m so worried…I’m not talking about the petition,I’m talking about some comments,some what they said *it was news..*
Please,everyone,please be careful ,don’t let those bad people break our lovely family up with just some make up lies…
Remember ,few months a go,a person already came in our page -posted something ,in Korean,wanted us to believe that was our JJ,but our ADM catched -found out it was a FAKE…and then ,some other girl told us she is a JJ ‘S NEIGHBOR,asked us ,*do we need to tell JJ about our page?*…etc etc…And then ,a composer,some models,a TV girl…There were a group,or only a person with so many name ,with bad intentions came in around that time,but some of our sisters couldn’t see it,already want to become family with them…!
I love to be here,I’ve got more sisters,mothers,aunties,friends..I’m happy to meet all of you ,everyday ,please,protect our family,protect the love of our heart,I don’t want to see anyone of you going to a hiding place,I don’t want anyone of you to become a silent reader just because of some arguement – started from the news-the lies come from the dark side,(and there was no proof to gain it!!!).Let’s think ,and check it clearly before we say anything to each other,please…
I love you all,please stay,and our family will be happier and lovelier,stronger…
*hugs*
My little chickadee, I love you.
XOXOXO
@butterfliesarefree2
I love you,Mommy
*hugs*
@Minmin
Dongsaeng-ya…unnie agreed with all you said! ^_^ *hugsy*
“Remember,few months a go,a person already came in our page – posted something,in Korean, wanted us to believe that was our JJ, but our ADM catched – found out it was a FAKE…and then,some other girl told us she is a JJ‘S NEIGHBOR, asked us,*do we need to tell JJ about our page?*…etc etc…And then ,a composer, some models, a TV girl…” ~ this was totally new to me but then again, we already knew these ppl (haters/antis) will not stop until they reach their goal. I am forever appreciate the hardwork of JYJ3 adminies (all of them) for diligently checking out each news,rumors, gossips to make sure we (i-fans) get only the truth and reliable news. Of course, our other frequent readers sisters that always on the look-out and protect our men from malicious attacks.
For me, this is my only resources to updating myself of our men news, besides twitter of course^^ and I wish I can be more in the foreground but I just like to be a shadow for now…unless if I really think I want to say something hehe..*hope I make sense here*…
@Fazz
Unnie ,*hugs*
@MINMIN sweetie love you a lot too ^______^ hugssss
So I have a question for everyone
What do you guys think of Junsu’s new single? Do yall like it? How was the english for you guys?
@tente
“What do you guys think of Junsu’s new single? Do yall like it? How was the english for you guys?”
I ~LOVE~ it with a capital L- O- V- E. His vocals are superb on it. I have no problem with him having an accent although I’ve heard some people do. I don’t get it, but that’s the way they feel. I like the track, the song surprised me when I first heard it because I thought the 3 repeated “Uncommitteds” from the teasers was going to be the chorus and it turned out it wasn’t the chorus and that only happened once – in the beginning of the song.
Now I’m also interested in hearing the re-mix that is on the way. That should be very cool too.
I happen to love “Uncommitted”. I love it because it has a smooth dance beat, and a groove to it. Totally understand the message of the song, and what it is portraying, at least to me. I am pleased with Junsu’s performance, not because of his singing, that is always top-notch, but his improvement with his English skills. This, because it matters to others.
I’m one of a minority that does not require perfect English language skills, from anyone who has a foreign tongue. I’m not that phobic about it. I don’t judge people because of that. I don’t speak any foreign language, so who am I to judge. Probably the only Americans who don’t fall into this category are opera fans who don’t speak a lick of Italian or French, the languages most operas are performed in, at the major opera companies here. They simply judge the vocal skills of the singer. That’s me.
I’m from the U.S. Americans are the only people I know who feel this sense of entitlement that others need to speak English when they come here, and when they travel, expect others to speak English in their native countries. How F’d up is that?
@Baffie
“How F’d up is that?”
no kidding. i’ve family in europe and when i’ve visited or skyped and we’ve gotten onto the topic of US tourists, that’s been the biggest complaint. It’s not every one, but there is definitely a pervasive underlying feeling in this country that the citizens of this country and the country itself view the rest of the world as somehow less than themselves. which really makes no sense.
@springbok7
Unfortunately, it’s a spillover from the Ugly American syndrome, from back in the day. Here on the mainland it is really bad. Now you have all these ‘pure Americans’ who want an English only law. The only thing this accomplishes is making immigrants hostile. Showcasing one’s ignorance of others is nothing to brag about.
@BAF
“Unfortunately, it’s a spillover from the Ugly American syndrome, from back in the day.”
Oh, this country, this country and it’s puffed up, self-righteous citizens! I just despair and despair and despair of calling myself an American anymore, so many of my countrymen just make me cringe with shame at their behavior. That’s a terrible thing to admit about one’s country, isn’t it? But for me, it’s the truth.
Oh, I never have a problem calling them out. I’m not one of these ‘my country right or wrong’ folks. That’s too much like being a lemming going out to sea. Usually, those who spout out that ‘patriotism’ BS, are the biggest bunch of phonies in the world.
@BAF
“Oh, I never have a problem calling them out.”
Oh, I so agree with you there. If Romney gets elected, I swear I’m moving to Lake Como. Me and George Clooney will be neighbors. Yeah, yeah, OK, I’ll probably be the one cleaning his upstairs bathrooms…
@Lili
“Oh, I so agree with you there. If Romney gets elected, I swear I’m moving to Lake Como. Me and George Clooney will be neighbors. Yeah, yeah, OK, I’ll probably be the one cleaning his upstairs bathrooms…”
Not a snowball’s chance. Mittens is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. The same thing that happened to McCain in the debates, will happen to Mittens. Looking more foolish than normal became the lynchpin. Mincemeat served on a silver platter. Mitt has boxed himself into a corner by cowtowing to the lunatic fringe in the conservative party. These folks are so out of touch with reality. I.E. that dipstick Akin from MO.
So, George is going to have your services as the upstairs maid huh? Well, since you will be in Italy you can look Ellis up. Ellis are you paying attention?!
Please tell George you have a dear friend who would love his autograph. Thank you. 
@BAF
“So, George is going to have your services as the upstairs maid huh? Well, since you will be in Italy you can look Ellis up. Ellis are you paying attention?! Please tell George you have a dear friend who would love his autograph.”
George’s autograph?? I’ll hardly be asking for it. He’s not nearly Asian enough for me.
But the lush surroundings of Lake Como – well, it’s my kind of town.
I kind of agree with you about Mittens. SURELY the American public in all their millions cannot be BLIND, deaf and dumb enough for them to vote for a man whose only agenda is further enriching millionaires…
@lili @BAF @Miranda
I’m here – in lurking mode on – and what I see?
My name trots out in the middle of a conversation between my beloved sisters…
Lili, I’ll be waiting for you right here if something goes wrong!
My village is 2 hours away from Como…. Not so far, uh? I’ll be right here with open arms!
\(^_^)/ I’d like to be your Italian “coach” for sure!
Mommy-hen and my dear Hawaiian sister could join you in your adventure! ^^
@springbok
P.S. I really enjoyed the “treasure hunt” you made for me last time we met here!
hahah if you enjoyed that one, check out the pics i put up on twitter last month…..
@Ellis
Hi!!! *hugs* I was thinking of you the other day. Lili doesn’t know it yet, but I’ll be joining her on her sojourn to Italy, as long as it’s before the start of winter!
@Ellis
“Lili, I’ll be waiting for you right here if something goes wrong!
My village is 2 hours away from Como…. Not so far, uh? I’ll be right here with open arms!”
Hi Ellis — If Mittens gets elected, expect to hear a knock on your door! That’ll be me with about 15 suitcases. Lake Como, here I come!
@Sapphire
” Lili doesn’t know it yet, but I’ll be joining her on her sojourn to Italy, as long as it’s before the start of winter!”
Sounds good to me.
We can start an underground blog together of fiery rhetoric and assorted retaliations dedicated to the utter destruction for all time of SME. No end o’ fun, right?? lol
@Sapphire Hi darling!! *hugs*
Happy to know I’ll be with us!
But why only before winter?
My region is beautiful in spring & summer, colorful in autumn but magic in winter…
You can see here: http://twitpic.com/photos/68ellis
I uploaded some pictures of my city and surrondings in summer/winter versions to prove it!!
PS. BTW I love sea and warmer temperatures!!
@Ellis
Oh, Ellis! Those photos are just gorgeous and thanks for the map too. I can now know right where you are! (Very close to France and Switzerland, I notice. You must speak French too, right?) You come from a beautiful place!
@Lili
Thanx! I don’t really like to live in a mountainious alpine region, but I must admit that it’s beautiful and rich of history and roman & medieval monuments.
My region is bilingual. You must take a French test to work in public administration, even if I can say I don’t use it so often.
So I can speak French. Not so good now, because I emproved my English skills while “living” here in JYJ3, I learned some expressions in Korean and Japanes because of JYJ, but I definitely lost a lot of my French abilities.
My little old brain can’t accomodate all this ammount of informations!!
@Ellis
“@Lili Thanx! I don’t really like to live in a mountainious alpine region, but I must admit that it’s beautiful and rich of history and roman & medieval monuments.”
My husband love watching travel shows while we eat dinner sometimes and needless to say your fabled region of the world is one that I have seen many times. I just love the region, it is so rich in history and I would love to travel there someday and I think all of the seasons are beautiful there.
xxoo
I like it… maybe it’s just me but i prefer smooth/slow toned song tracks rather than upbeat dance tracks. And looking back to a few korean acts that has been targetting american market, let’s compare with BoA’s “I did it For Love”, SNSD’s “The Boys”, Wondergirls’s “Like Money”, I can positively say this song and Junsu did better. For me it feels like Junsu is just effortlessly sing because he loves to sing, without much forced intention to gain immediate success like *coughSNSDcough*. It reminds me with Anggun C Sasmi, one of Indonesian’s singer, that has successfully recognized abroad, because she has the skill, and she is just being who she is..
For some people maybe Junsu is still lacking in English pronounciation, but to me it doesn’t matter, because usually I’m more into the song’s melody and the singer’s vocal.
Just a random thoughts, the end part of the chorus “You’ll never stay committed to me” sounds a bit like Justin Bieber’s “Common Denominator”, just only this part..
@ai uta
“For some people maybe Junsu is still lacking in English pronounciation, but to me it doesn’t matter, because usually I’m more into the song’s melody and the singer’s vocal. ”
Oh, me, too. The track, the song, the melody and above all the vocal performance are what matter to me. Lyrics? Well, I’ve learned not to expect too much from k-pop lyrics, although I must say that some of Jaejoong’s have moved me. But for the most part – ehh.
I don’t mind a bit if the song is sung in Korean – I love the sound of the language and I think it is beautiful to listen to. (I find the particular accent of DBSK/JYJ especially beautiful to listen to.) Junsu delivered a MASTERFUL performance of this song by Bruce Vanderveere. I think what happened in the studio and how fast Junsu is really REALLY impressed Bruce, who is no slouch himself. (OMG, HOW MUCH would I give to hear his demo of this song, the demo that he presented to Junsu???) Anyway, those who need to find a place to criticize will always find that place. That’s their thing, let them have at it. I love the song and will enjoy it for months to come. And may I just say: “MOOOOORE, JUNSU! MOOOOORE!!”
I will never ever understand the need for some Americans to only hear the dialect and tone of their particular area. I learned that the hard way when I first moved from Korea. I’ve actually picked up an obnoxious habit where if someone speaks with me with an accent, I will immediately try to copy them in order to “fit in” b/c that’s what I learned to do in order to be accepted. I think accents are beautiful, yeah, sometimes it makes for some words to be awkward when speaking a foreign language, but the english language has sounds that simply do not exist in hangul. It’s extremely difficult and I think Junsu does a tremendous job.
@mkverse
“I think accents are beautiful, yeah, sometimes it makes for some words to be awkward when speaking a foreign language, but the english language has sounds that simply do not exist in hangul. It’s extremely difficult and I think Junsu does a tremendous job.”
SO DO I ! Junsu is doing extremely well and I’m proud, so proud of him for trying. Because he is. And may I just apologize for all of my insensitive idiot countrymen who may have made you feel awkward. I can assure you we all do not feel the need to belittle people who can actually speak more than one language! People in my country can behave unforgivably sometimes. So again, apologies.
@lili
You’re such a sweetheart! No need to apologize, I’ve now been in this country for 17 years and have learned to embrace the very best and the very worst. But I do really hope people will get over the need to hear what they expect to hear, and just hear his voice as the fantastic musical instrument it is!
MKVERSE< Apparently American English has sounds that don't exist in other English-speaking countries, too! I was visiting Shannon, Ireland years ago, and had the fun of sitting with Irish friends, at a pub, who were making fun of the "loud-mouthed wanna-be-Irish" (New York Catholic tourists) sitting next to us and making a bad name for America! And, in Kashmir, with Indian army watching every move I made, I certainly didn't get any love, for what they took as a Muslim-lover American tourist! I'd love to hear you doing the American dialects!!
@Dea
I always feel that the music video has to come second to the song. The song is most important. So I listen first without watching. That way I really get a chance to concentrate on the melody, the way the singer approaches it and the story the song tells all on its own (if it’s in English.) This song, “Uncommitted” was a winner right from the start because of Junsu’s incredible lead and backing vocals. The video for me should just be icing on the cake. It’s the song that has to stand on its own. And it does. Quite nicely.
i really….really love it so much……it’s true that i still can’t understand some part of the lyrics but most all of it, i can understand what the message of the song and how fast that Junsu improved his skill on english. I don’t mind with his engrish since it’s more makes me excited for keep observing his skill time by time
@ai uta
‘It reminds me with Anggun C Sasmi, one of Indonesian’s singer, that has successfully recognized abroad, because she has the skill, and she is just being who she is..’
she is one of my favorite singer, well to be honest i more prefer a solo singer like her or Afgan or Gita Gutawa,etc than a boy/girl group that started to come out again these days in Indonesia. same with u, i also more into the song’s melody and the singer’s vocal. I just realize these past days when i started to observe how the other singers performance on TV and to be honest i found that hard to me to heard or watching a singer especially a group who only good on dancing and appearance but not really well on singing skill but these people became arrogant so fast . I started to thinking : is this because my high standard for singer’s vocal or because i already lost interest to those group since beginning ?. .
@miaw..
believe me i feel the same way as you do. Solo artists are much more interesting and have the actual talent, there’s a lot i can mentioned that are my favorites: Agnes Monica, Rossa, Sammy Kerispatih, Petra Sihombing, Rio Febrian (and the list goes on…..lol) Never i find any Indonesian group of idol right now that attracts me. It’s true that korean-styled girlbands and/or boybands are popular right now in our country, but it just doesn’t work for me. I think those groups don’t have much to offer, there’s nothing special/nothing new besides cute gestures, synchronized dancing, and (sad but true) just mediocre singing skills. I admit there are a few groups with some nice songs, but their mediocre way of singing kind of degrading the song’s quailty and also degrading my interest to them. lol…. no offense just mere my opinion (just in case there are fans of indonesian idol group’s lurking here). I don’t know whether or not someday my opinion on them will be changed. It might be hard because I usually tend to compare them with the best one, such as AB Three, Rida Sita Dewi, Elfa’s Singers… lol,,, Whoever in charge in creating those groups SHOULD really consider the vocal abilities, not just the pretty/handsome/stylish figures… sorry for my rant..
@ai uta
i don’t know if i should talk about this matter or not but i heard this case from my friend who have a friend from Korea and i guess it’s already in a news, there is one group which have a good appearance but for performance in singing ability it’s so-so and they are done a ‘crime’ in music industry field (i hope u understand what kind the crime of it without i mention it) and there are a proof of it which give a negative view from Korean people but i see that they still show up with arrogant attitude. To be honest i really hate people who like that and felt so shame to have people like these in Indonesia….. Sorry for my rant and also for fans of indonesian idol group’ who read my comment .
When the ‘Uncommited’ MV out, I didn’t watch it..I just listen to the song without even taking a glimpse of it as I just want to hear his voice and music…second time then I watch the MV. My verdict ~ I love the song without MV haha…I mean, somehow the MV taking away the magic of the song..unless it’s ‘Tarantellegra’ I prefer watching the MV and mesmerized by the powerful dance routine. Ballad much romantic to the ears..not eyes..hehe
Being Asian myself, I said Junsu’s english is good. I don’t know why people like to call it ‘Engrish’?? Well, as long as my ears understand the pronounciations and meaning of each sentences..I think its good already. Here in Malaysia, I hear American english, British english, Australian english, Canadian english, French english, Korean english, Japanese english, Indonesian english..all of them have different accents but I understand whatever they want to say. What is perfect English anyway?
i like the accent. i’m no english native so i can’t understand everything when i first listened to it, but i like it. ^^
Hi Tente, (I posted this comment on Soompi a couple of weeks ago, in response to a poster who criticized JYJ members’ ability to speak English and whether they would make it in the American market, if they don’t improve. She made the mistake of saying that Micky spoke English in a press conference but made no sense – and that made me respond! (Micky certainly suffered enough already with grade-school American kids, in his past, making fun of his English!) The poster and I declared a truce, and she did have some good ideas about their marketability. Here is my post:
“I listen daily to k-pop and I have no interest in my favorite Korean artists learning to speak better English.
If I did, my second favorite listening pleasure, American R & B and hiphop, would also have to undergo a transition. I google the hiphop and urban dictionary when I really want to know what I think I heard. Mostly I just ignore the sex references, the garbled words whose meanings I don’t really want to know, and sing along with the chorus, “go Stupid, go Stupid” or something like that and groove on the bass beat. I think k-pop offers me as rich a musical experience, since I need subtitles for the American music I like, too. There have been jokes for years about the most famous songs, and what listeners were singing along for lyrics, which were not the actual words to the song. K-pop offers enough of those same catchy English phrases that I can shout or sing.
Xiah Junsu is my top k-pop performer, at the moment, partly due to Tarantallegra and it’s dance, theatre, and world music base. Xiah shows his stage chops and years of singing/performing with JYJ to their utmost. I get what I like best, some rap and visionary sounds in the music, along with that repetition of k-pop and some rapture in the stage production and top-notch dancing. I’m currently waiting for his concert, along with fans from multiple countries on his world tour. Thousands of fans around the world, are clamoring for him to visit them, buying his cd, and viewing his mv on Youtube. We’re seriously taxing google and bing translate buttons, and no arguments have come up about which is the most perfect language.
I live in Miami, and if I challenged all my Spanish speaking contacts to speak better English to me, so they can succeed as good Americans, I would hope to get my ass kicked. America is a country of multiple peoples and languages, with the democratic choice to walk away, if something displeases. Years of immigration of multiple ethnicities have added to a richer English, that encompasses phrases from languages around the world, in any urban speak. Our politicians and business leaders have accents and speak “imperfect” English. We’re a nation of mutts, and proud of it.
Whether Xiah, or JYJ, as a group becomes more marketable in the Western world, based on their ability to speak better English, is yet to be seen. My bet is on them. JYJ sits on a history of accomplishments in the entertainment industry, to the point that Xiah was able to promote his music, and wow the world without Korean media support. Additionally, anyone aware of Yoochun’s or Jaejoong’s multiple talents, as singers, song writers, or actors, is discourteous to them as professionals, by attacking their shortcomings in speaking English. In other words, xenophobia has long been passe.”
So, Tente, in answer to your question now. I am from a small town in America, and we have a saying there, “Could you open up your mouth and talk. You sound like you got your mouth full of shit.” So, for me most Americans don’t speak good English, me too, and I think Xiah, as a singer, enunciates so well, I practice moving my mouth like he does. And I like my k-pop with an accent, anyway. Do ya’ll understand? Love ya.
@Bonnie Lou
“Hi Tente, (I posted this comment on Soompi a couple of weeks ago, in response to a poster who criticized JYJ members’ ability to speak English and whether they would make it in the American market, if they don’t improve. ”
Hi Bonnie Lou – I loved reading your post. It was nicely written and you made many great points – I agree with you about your comments regarding who has an accent, who speaks well and who doesn’t. A large percentage of Americans don’t speak particularly good English, that’s for sure. The whole topic of Xia’s accent just seems so loaded to me. People who want to find fault, who are xenophobic and well, the accent, the fact that he doesn’t speak English yet, it’s a convenient reason to dismiss him.
Their loss, I say. They are missing an extraordinary artist who is at once a battle-hardened veteran of 8 long years as a performer and Idol-Star in Asia and an energetic 26 year old just in the beginning years of a great career. An interesting combination, and that’s what Kim Junsu is –a multifaceted gem.
Cheers!
I followed last night voting at eatyourkimchi, and witnessed fans’ devotion and determination to put JYJ Junsu’s Uncommitted to #1.
I know winning this doesn’t put our boys on TV or any prestigeous Korean music award that our boys are always neglected. JYJ, despite their epic music and talent, are considered a non-existent in music industry. Simon & Martina also pointed that, and it motivated JYJ fans more to give the boys 1st position in whatever poll. A determination to show South Korea that JYJ does exist.
At first, everybody thought it was impossible. Nu’est had been there longer, Junsu’s was posted only last week. Two hours before closing, JS managed to take over #1, but an hour later Junsu fell again to #2. I saw comments of Nu’est fans asked for help from other fandom. So fans who claimed themselves as fans of various group, including Cassie and Elf voted Nu’est. I’m not going to start arguing why a Cassie didn’t vote Junsu. They even said Junsu can win next time. Yeah right, like we can see Junsu everyday on TV? We grab little chance available.
Only 20minutes left before closing, JS was still at 2nd place, They need miracle, but many fans didn’t give up and managed to gain 11,500-ish in 20 minutes? I was amazed. The final result was Junsu 41,439 Nu’est 29,857
Talking about determination and devotion, I salute you all, JS fans, JYJ fans and fans from other fandom that recognised music quality of a true artists.
It looks simple and small in value, but together, you can create miracle. I hope all jyj fans, whether individual/group, can stay and work together like last night.
Thanks for those fans who updated us abt the voting.
@dolphinxiah
” I know winning this doesn’t put our boys on TV or any prestigeous Korean music award that our boys are always neglected. JYJ, despite their epic music and talent, are considered a non-existent in music industry.”
I don’t know, I just *can’t* believe that is true. Non-existent?? The members of JYJ? I simply don’t believe it. If anything, I think they are legendary at this point among ALL who know anything about the Korean music business, or follow music there, as well as being honored seniors of the people in the business there. Simon and Martina may have made that statement but I really don’t think they are the respected music authorities that some seem to think they are. I think they are more possibly popular for their comedy shtick than their musical taste.
Having said that, I think it’s wonderful that Junsu won the poll. He deserved to win. Really it’s kind of another shocking statement that some Cassies would have voted against him. Aren’t they supposed to be the diehard fans? It’s sad if it’s true.
@lilibaiyu – In response to your mention of Simon & Martina and EYK. I’m glad this came up, as I want to present my views as a new k-pop fan. (I don’t practice any religion yet – not signed up for any fandom) I caught EYK’s comedic shtick (yes, you are right) when Tarantallegra first came out. I didn’t know who the hell they were, from Adam, and really didn’t think their review of it was funny. Myself, I was so taken, I wrote that it was “epic, like Queen, British top-selling artist”. Then I forgot about EYK, and found my own groups. One of which was Nu’est and Baby Ren (and yes, I voted for Xiah against them, they’re younger and can recover. And I voted because Xiah’s good fandom was asking me to, repeatedly).
After Tarantallegra I looked up Intoxication mv. I loved the song, but not the effects,(almost Rain making routine, and the colors – all brown back-ground), so I dismissed it. Then I found his fantastic stage Korean version that went on my Favorite list, and found out from listening to my CD, what a fantastic number it really is (muted horns, Spanish guitar, etc).
Anyway, the point about EYK – to date the Intoxication mv, from Nov. last year, only has 200,000 views. But, it has multiple comments from viewers, making fun of it, and touting the Simon & Martina shtick. I didn’t see their review of it, but wondered if they felt remorse later, that they may have been part of it’s failure. I see they are supportive on this Uncommitted one – yes, whatever they did to make fun in the past – it’s good they are not doing it again. How have people weighed in on EYK, I constantly see them shipped as the best thing since slice bread??
@Bonnie Lou
“In response to your mention of Simon & Martina and EYK. I’m glad this came up, as I want to present my views as a new k-pop fan. ”
I came upon the voices of Jaejoong, Yuchun and Junsu several years ago when they were still in DBSK. They did a couple of songs for “The Legend” K-drama OST that really peaked my curiosity about them. WHO were the owners of these heavenly, emotive voices? Did I ever find out! lol That’s the beauty of the internet. If you wanna know ANYTHING… no problem! It’s all out there somewhere. And DBSK were huge stars by then so there was plenty. Then JYJ split off and sued SM and that’s when I became interested in following the progress of the lawsuit. I really really admire and respect the talent of these 3 and I love who I know them to be as people.
Not so much Simon & Martina, but that’s OK, they don’t need me to be their fans. I didn’t know that they may have had a hand in dashing Intoxication’s hopes but frankly I think that was a far different Kim Junsu than the one we see today. He was not ready to really truly go for it solo career-wise at that point. He “didn’t have confidence” (as the Koreans say) in his abilities to stand alone like he does now. Also of course the timing was all wrong, the lawsuit was heating up and I think AVEX stopped their activities in Japan right around that time too, didn’t they?
Junsu is ready now, he’s electric – I mean the man is on fire! Anybody can see it. Who knows, maybe even Simon&Martina will finally notice too this time around.
Simon and Martina poke fun at all videos so they may be disliked by people who can’t handle any kind of teasing but I never saw that people disliked Intoxication because of them. Sounds like a paranoid theory to me. There are people who didn’t like the raunchy dance and others who didn’t like the r&b feel. (Not everyone digs R&B) Nor do I think it has anything to do with how “confident” Junsu felt when he shot the mv. I like that song A LOT and I enjoyed the mv (I didn’t notice that Junsu may have felt nervous. He looked FINE to me lol) but there are people who didn’t like it. They have the right to enjoy whatever they want to. There were also lots of people who didn’t like “Mirotic” (First DBSK song I ever heard) They called the song “gay” and the video even gayer. So?
Didn’t stop the people who did like it.
“I didn’t see their review of it, but wondered if they felt remorse later, that they may have been part of it’s failure.”
Oh wow. Really?
I know that there are all kinds of imbeciles on the internet. Complete sheeple who need to follow someone in order to determine what they should or shouldn’t like. They need people to tell them which K-dramas to like and follow (dramabeans), they need Simon and Martina to introduce them to new artists cause they are too lazy or stupid to do it themselves and they stick to flies to whomever vomits enough opinions so they can have someone to “agree” with. Come on now. Junsu deserves FAR better fans than those.
I remember that many of the older fans who used to frequent this site (I miss them) joked about Intoxication but they still loved the song and never did they mock Junsu for it.
“Kiss me, touch me, rub my bananas”
Ayyy Girl: “Rolling down my sexy window”
No one got offended.
This is the video:
Wait though. Simon and Martina or EYK? What is EYK?
Oh right. Eat your kimchi. I would only read the Kpop Music Monday tag.
@Retrokim
“Nor do I think it has anything to do with how “confident” Junsu felt when he shot the mv. I like that song A LOT and I enjoyed the mv (I didn’t notice that Junsu may have felt nervous. He looked FINE to me lol) but there are people who didn’t like it.”
I loved the song too! And I loved the video. And true enough, Junsu didn’t look the least bit shy or unsure of himself in the vid… that wasn’t what I was getting at. My interpretation of the follow-up to the releasing of the song/vid was that perhaps the reason he didn’t continue on, make a whole album and tour as a solo act as he has done recently was because he just didn’t feel ready at that point. I think I’ve read interviews he’s given where he said something of the sort. He just wasn’t sure he could carry a whole show on his own back then. His role in Elizabeth seems to have been the turning point for him. He seems to have made the decision, “Yes. I can do this.” And man, oh man, was he ever right!
P.S. Mirotic …gay?? Are you serious?? lolololol
@lilibaiyu
It was more of a reply to Bonnie Lou. But yes it is likely that at that time he wasn’t ready to embark on something like that. Shame cause he was doing so well…..so well T_________________T
I love you Junsu!!!!
@lilibaiyu
Yeah some douche said he felt like he was in a gay club when he watched the mv. But isn’t it kind of homophobic of me to be offended? I mean if a gay guy was asked if he were straight he wouldn’t react the same way a straight guy would if he was asked if he were gay. But I’m going off on a tangent.
@retrokim
“Yeah some douche said he felt like he was in a gay club when he watched the mv. ”
lolol A gay club, I like that. So dude… how often are you IN gay clubs, anyway? Once a week? Every chance you get? How are they?
Well… here’s what I always say to people who pose this particular argument: Every human – each and every one of us, is composed of a masculine and a feminine side. For some, one side or the other is especially pronounced and the other side is deeply buried. For these people, the buried side has Shame associated with it, not to mention FEAR.
For others, there is really a nice healthy balance of both sides. (Carl Jung, the noted psychologist, felt that this was the ideal balance – both sides in harmony.) We all can think of some people who seem to demonstrate only one side — the super macho male favored by the West, the super fem ideal favored by the East. But for me, the true ideal is the marrying happily of male and female characteristics in one personality. As it happens, the minute I think of this ideal male I think of Jaejoong, who seems to positively embody the felicitous marrying of positive male and female traits. This is one of the reasons I revere him so, in fact. He is a man for all seasons. As an artist, as a writer, it couldn’t be more fortunate.
@lilibaiyu
Hi…
Thanks for responding. I was focusing on the battle of voting that to me it was a miracle created by fans’ determination and devotion. If fans worked together,they could do anything. I didn’t focus on EYK poll. I said WHATEVER poll there are out there, JYJ fans will try hard to put our boys to the top, whether formal/informal polls.
2 years ago, I was still active on Twitter. I helped promoting JJ for that twitter award. Yoosu also. And also many other polls. But the formal music chart/polls, they never were included, it frustrated me.
For EYK itself, I only watched Tarantallegra review..Fans said they loved it,but I didn’t like their way of review. My friends said they said bad about In Heaven, so I never checked them out. I asked abt this at the EYK voting post, someone said that they’re Junsui biased. I don’t know about that…Basically I don’t like them making fun of our boys.
@dolphinxiah
“For EYK itself, I only watched Tarantallegra review..Fans said they loved it,but I didn’t like their way of review. My friends said they said bad about In Heaven, so I never checked them out. I asked abt this at the EYK voting post, someone said that they’re Junsui biased. I don’t know about that…Basically I don’t like them making fun of our boys.”
Oh, me either! It burns me up too and that’s what I basically don’t like about Simon & Martina – they never fail to be sarcastic and snarky and I can’t *stand* to hear people talking trash about JYJ either. I become livid and then…. I start posting comments, and I think we all know where THAT leads. lol
I’ve long known that there is a way of posting about a situation stressing the positive and another way stressing the negative. Needless to say, when it comes to JYJ my job as a devoted follower of these 3 young men is to suggest that the positive reading of any given situation as it applies to them is the correct one. This is not because I am blindly following some dictum that someone higher up has told me is the “correct response” btw. it’s because I’ve examined the situation and if the members are once again being maligned and the trash-talk is without merit, then I’m sorry, but I gotta step in. (this policy has gotten me in no end of hot water over at AllK-Pop, Seoulbeats, 6Theory, etc. btw. lol For the faint of heart, I have to say I can’t recommend it as the way to spend a Sunday afternoon stress-free.)
JYJ do so much for us. They care about the fans and they take such pains to give back. We love them, of course, but in a very real way, they love back. They are in a tough situation right now. This brings out the maternal/protective side of me like you can’t believe. (and I’m betting I’m not the only one this is happening to either!)
I take comfort in the fact that the members are doing well, succeeding brilliantly in everything they ARE able to do now in spite of everything the largest entertainment cartel in SK can throw at them. THIS is how powerful and great JYJ are. What I want, of course is for them to leave SK and never come back. I want them to emigrate to a place that supports and loves them as much as they deserve to be loved. I’m pretty sure in this case I will not get my wish, but really, SK fans!! What the hell!~!?? Your boys NEED you to do something! What’s it gonna take??
@lilibaiyu
I can’t find reply button under your last comment kkk
“if the members are once again being maligned and the trash-talk is without merit, then I’m sorry, but I gotta step in. (this policy has gotten me in no end of hot water over at AllK-Pop, Seoulbeats, 6Theory, etc. btw. lol For the faint of heart, I have to say I can’t recommend it as the way to spend a Sunday afternoon stress-free.)”
You must be a strong-hearted lady! I love to argue with them, but my vocab is limited, so I tend to repeat what I’ve said. Hehehe…
“What I want, of course is for them to leave SK and never come back. I want them to emigrate to a place that supports and loves them as much as they deserve to be loved.”
It’s my wish too if not everybody’s. It hurts me that they are being denied by their own country, but still being used for the sake of Hallyu. When they succeeded overseas, SK media said it’s Hallyu thingy, but when they talked about Hallyu overseas, JYJ is almost never being mentioned.
Speaking of taking them to somewhere that treat them as human being, somewhere that acknowledge their multitalents. Any idea where we can make a JYJ-land? Haha…Well, despite the unfair treatment they received from their own country, they love their country. We’re rooting for their freedom and happiness whenever they are…
I like Martina and Simon but they ARE NOT the authority in music much less in Korean music since they can barely chew the language. How people have gotten that impression I’ll never know. That is also why I don’t like it when certain fans go overboard and say that JYJ are the best Korean artists…..I go like…”have you listened to all of them to make that kind of statement?” I laugh because they don’t even understand what they are listening to so where do they get all these ideas? I can’t say that about Korean or Japanese artists. I don’t understand the language and I only listen to artists I stumble upon so what the hell do I know?
It is one thing to say that JYJ is your favorite Korean artist and that you feel that they are offering something other artists you have listened to aren’t and it is another thing when people who don’t even bother to check up on other artists claim that so and so artist is the “best” but most people never bother to clarify themselves. What is the “best” anyway? One’s own personal tastes.
So yeah. M/S are really fun but I wouldn’ take it THAT seriously. Even reviews by “critics” are just glorified opinions. I like what I like but boasting about it is in bad taste and gets people on the defensive.
@lilibaiyu
Hey! How are you?
The newer cassies only care for Homin and I have always had the sinking feeling that some OT5s secretly wish for JYJ to fail in the vain hopes that this will force them back to TVXQ! Never mind that they are also humans with feelings. King Homin rules all. Seriously they have morphed into one entity now. I suppose it is to teach us misguided JYJ fans what true brotherhood is like. Cause we are all traitors and what not.
@retrokim
Yo, Retrokim! I’m fine, hanging in there. You know me – saying what I think and then dodging behind the nearest solid object in case of opposing views and/or flying projectiles. lol
it’s an interesting topic you raised above about whether a personal favorite is also “the best.” I think music is so subjective. People hear vastly different things in the same song or sometimes don’t actually hear the song or the singer at all! I’ve spent the last few years really delving deeply into the amazingly varied and wonderful world of Korean contemporary pop and R&B. I passionately love this music now and am still finding songs and singers who regularly blow me away. Anybody who says there’s no good music or musicianship in SK is CRAZY and needless to say, wrong. Now having said that, what I will say about JYJ (and the individual members) is that they are the group whom I CARE most about. They are the one and only group I carefully follow and for whom I wish to do anything I can to see them survive and prosper in the hostile environment they now find themselves in. That’s different from saying “they’re the best.” I don’t think you can really say that unless you’ve immersed yourself for a while in this amazingly dense with talent little area of the world and sample a lot of SK has to offer musically.
As to the the cunningly manufactured career path of Homin — I just have to shake my head and go my own way. I don’t get it, but then I don’t have to. Everybody gets to listen to whatever they want. I believe in that. I think it’s sad that there are Cassies out there rooting for JYJ to fail so they’ll go back to SM – I’ve pretty much stopped using the word “delusional” because strictly speaking it’s not very nice but THAT is truly delusional thinking, sorry but it is. And it’s not going to happen, because JYJ are winners, they are NOT going to fail, in fact they are going to change the way business is done in the K-entertainment industry. This is what the people on top now are afraid of, we all get that, but change is needed there and it will come. There is too much good music there, there are too many great artists for the country to remain in the Dark Ages for much longer.
Your whole comment made perfect sense to me. My mother HATES reggae but to me it is one of my all time favorite styles. What can I do? She likes what she likes and I like what I like. Oddly enough though we both like JYJ.
I had to be very subtle with this. You know how sometimes you talk about someone or something but you get the distinct feeling that the person you are speaking to only agrees because they don’t want to hurt your feelings or be rude? I didn’t want to introduce JYJ to my mother and then have her be painfully fake with me. I just played a “random” playlist from youtube. I mixed all kinds of music and made it seem like I was visiting someone else’s page. She ACTUALLY liked it even though she didn’t understand what they were singing. I played music in English, Spanish, Portuguese and then I snuck in the Korean music.
She liked “Boy’s Letter” and “I.D.Scenario” the most. I was like….T________T but from happiness.
@retrokim
“She liked “Boy’s Letter” and “I.D.Scenario” the most. I was like….T________T but from happiness.”
Wow! Am I ever impressed with your Mom! I was just up visiting my old home stomping grounds for a week and every single time I made mention of a k-singer or group I’ve been currently listening to my nearest and dearest friends and relations would roll their eyes and change the subject. THEN “Uncommitted” was released and I was just so thrilled I made the error of playing it for an old friend and former writing partner of mine. She stopped it after about the first verse and chorus and said she didn’t like it, it had no melody. NO MELODY!!?? Seriously?? I’ve been singing this song in my car for a week now! How am I doing that if there’s no melody!!??
Still, it’s true. No one in my real world likes Korean music. It’s been a little demoralizing occasionally but it hasn’t stopped me for a moment from listening, collecting and enjoying it. Oh, and btw, I think they’re all wrong and I’m right. In a way the experience has taught me to say what I believe and not pay so much attention to what others might be thinking about it. It’s a good thing to trust yourself like that.
@lilibaiyu
Yes it is a bit saddening. I get it that people feel the strongest connection to music in their own language but that doesn’t mean one can’t also enjoy the music of other cultures. Sorry about what happened with your friend. I doubt your friendship was destroyed over that (lol)! but it must be a bummer when your friends don’t even try to respect or understand your tastes. Keep rocking cause you ARE right! It is what you want to listen to so they’ll just have to deal with it.
Hello RETRO KIM, I’m back on Monday night to follow up!. I have to get used to the way you communicate. I know you might have been overwhelmed by my assigned PURPLE DOWNTURNED SMURKY FACE, which really does look a little like PURPLE PARANOIA. But hey, I’m dealing with your LIME GREEN PYRAMID HEAD with your tongue stuck out!
I was off work all day on Hurricane watch and able to monitor the news. EYK did their review of Uncommitted and I watched it early and grabbed a report to take back to the Uncommitted mv and fans. Simon says: (by the way, did you play that in grade school?. I posted the following:
EYK review of Xiah was their usual funny stuff, but they said “We want to support JYJ in their solo project because it pisses us off that they’re banned from so many shows in Korea and also because we feel bad for them for having to deal with their bats**t crazy stalkers. Seriously, those people aren’t fans, they’re lunatics. So, we’d like to support JYJ whenever we can.”
bonnie lou 6 hours ago in playlist Favorites 187
And, at 6 hours after posting, fans are still eating it up! After the relief of hearing Simon say those good things, I relaxed and enjoyed the shtick, as lilibaiyu calls their routine. Simon wore a funny wig, and they were really funny, mostly criticizing the production of the video.
I personally was happiest for Nu’est losing, as poor Ren takes so much gay ragging anyway. (off the topic, isn’t it some kind of illegal for fans to lust after that poor little 16 year old boy? and he’s in chains in Action!, and finally, finally, someone commented “what I would like to do to you in those chains, Ren” – I was fascinated. I looked her profile up and…whew….she was 16!) So, I knew S&M (what, did I just write those initials, is it deliberate?) would make hay of Ren in Not Over You, with that face cream on, washing his face in the bathroom. (How could the mv producers have included that! – I love Baby Ren, and I love his face washing, but there’s so much material there to work with)
Anyway, so all’s well that ends well, I learned to appreciate S&M a little better – don’t say I’ll look them up again soon, but they served a purpose. And I still don’t like KISS AND TOUCH ME RUB MY BANANA’S!!, because I prefer the fan quote on the Korean version “kiss and fuck me, kiss and fuck me baby… yeah yeah”
Does this open discussion Saturday thing go on all week until next week, or am I cut off? And is it on next week? I have another question for next time, or maybe two.
RETRO KIM put your tongue back in your LIME GREEN PYRAMID HEAD!!!
RETROKIM – I POSTED A RESPONSE BELOW TO YOU, GOT THE WRONG SPOT AFTER i WENT TO THE BATHROOM – SO IT’S IN WRONG SUBJECT AREA – BUZZER JUST WENT OFF – I’M ZAPPED*****
@retrokim
“@lilibaiyu Yes it is a bit saddening. I get it that people feel the strongest connection to music in their own language but that doesn’t mean one can’t also enjoy the music of other cultures.”
Oh, just me again. lol Yeah, it surprised and hurt me to hear her comments (she being a pretty reliable judge of what’s good and what isn’t) but at this point I’m used to it. You’re right, Americans are a very insular lot, they think they made the world of pop music, they think they are invincible and all-knowing at it and that anyone else in any other country is just talking through their hats. So for me, who thinks she knows a thing or two about good music at this point, it’s upsetting. And still, it doesn’t lessen one iota my enjoyment of the music I love. So there, close-minded old cronies from my earlier days! Pthffffffffft!! **that’s the international sound of the raspberry**
@Bonnie Lou
“Does this open discussion Saturday thing go on all week until next week, or am I cut off?”
Bonnie Lou – we’re open all night, every night.
Enjoy!
@Bonnie Lou
LOL!!!! I watched it again and it was so gross! LOL!!!!!
@ miaw : these days I find it hardly to fave one certain Indonesian singer constantly, but Anggun is definitely the exception
for me, her sexy vocal & falsetto makes a song being special..
yesterday I attended a girls group concert (there’s not much concert here in Papua I guess but since my little cousin loves them) I’m quite surprised & enjoying when they sang 3
my impression was like, wow so actually they can sing too apart fr appearances covered (really sorry if anyone feels offended by my words)
no offense for boys or girls group since I’ve attracted to Kpop music before they pop up here
western songs then gave some lines fr famous love song while communicating w/audiences
I always love western music in diff genres (1st love and still going till now LOL), but DBSK past songs / JYJ is the 1st outside western style tt really move me.. whatever languages they sing, I’m always impressed w/ their voices, melody & their interpretations.. daebak!!! their voices are already the melody for me, I don’t care too much whether they sing the songs in the right accent or not (sometimes wanna cry hear them, the same reaction when hearing great western song or singer)
i also really sorry if anyone feels offended by my comment in above.
@sql : ‘DBSK past songs / JYJ is the 1st outside western style tt really move me.. whatever languages they sing, I’m always impressed w/ their voices, melody & their interpretations’
it’s also happen to me,in the past i like to heard western songs and before i knew about DBSK, i get stuck with Japanese songs but after i heard and watch the boys song, somehow there are something that move me, something that i never found in any singer that i ever heard…..so here i am……get fallin to deep to JYJ charm
@sql – Funny that you call JYJ’s music western style – you’re probably right. I tweeted our Automatic (Bruce Vanderveer, song writer for Uncommitted yesterday) and asked him did he find Mario’s song “Let Me Love You” a good style for JYJ and he replied that he loved the song, and yes, he agreed. Now, this music is American R&B, and so you’re probably right – they fit the western style……in particular Xiah, who has a lot of soul in his vocals!
I do get what you mean. I love lyrics and I always like to know the story of the song… I guess it’s a spillover from my poem-reading. XD But I am also a very visual person, which is why I like my music videos to make sense and to connect with the song somehow too. It’s like my appreciation of Tarantallegra… I love it more as a performance than as a stand alone song because of the meaning I find within the music video that connects with the song’s lyrics and sound.
This is also the reason why I tend to dislike some dance in the box music videos, because it adds nothing to my appreciation of the song.
SME has now sign 3 big names MCs in their company… can you imagine now even more of a stronghold they will have in the entertainment industry?
It seems to me that SME want to officially let JYJ know they will make it every tough for JYJ to make it back on TV.
Variety shows are not the only programming on TV. SME is always going to be annoying. To me the better idea is not waste time wondering about what SME is going to do. SM’s stranglehold is not permanent. There will come a day when they will not be able to rely on willful regulatory blindness. Let’s just support those things that will happen for the guys.
three? who is the other one? leeteuk? o-o khd is still inactive. sdy is famous, but not yjs/khd level yet.
seeing this, i guess rumors about them approaching yjs is true indeed. i hope yjs can stay the way he is now.
@Xenophobia
“SME has now sign 3 big names MCs in their company… can you imagine now even more of a stronghold they will have in the entertainment industry?”
So you think that in Korea the MC’s make programming decisions, book talent and call the shots? I kind of think that is the job of the producers and program directors of the show. I think it’s more likely that an MC shows up, shakes hands before the show with the guests, appears on camera and reads what’s written on the cue cards.
Let’s just wait and see what happens. Let’s not always jump to the worst case scenario.
Just read this from Hello Thrice
http://hellothrice.tumblr.com/post/30094959567/words-from-a-korean-fan-about-jyj-cjes-fancams
@jolo
“Just read this from Hello Thrice”
It was…well, it was what it was. One person’s opinion. Opinions are like bobbie pins (for girls) and mismatched socks (for boys.) We all have some. I really wish that people here if nowhere else would have gotten their facts straight before sounding off about the fancam controversy. C-jeS did NOT in fact “ban all fancams.” NINTENDO banned the showing of their intellectual property – the Mario Cart video. They own it, the guys were well paid for their appearance. Are we saying that people can now grab it and show it on YouTube? Nintendo says “No.” That’s up to them.
As to the scare tactics of SM’s massive power and the new wrinkle of the MC’s – well, what are we supposed to do with that?? Run and hide? Give up and go home?? Everybody’s free to do what they wish of course, but I think I’ll just hang tough with JYJ, just like JYJ has done for the last 3 years amid everything that SM has thrown at them. What’s YOUR solution?? Unless you come up with a better one, I suggest you petition and boycott SM. And loudly make your presence felt as SK fans that what they have been doing is WRONG. THAT would be worth something. Trying to strike fear into the hearts of people who are simply supporting a group they believe in isn’t particularly helpful or useful.
@Jolo
I read the piece, both parts. While I did not feel the need to participate in the petition, I do understand the frustration of fans wanting to see more and more of the guys. I am not unsymphathetic, contrary to popular opinion.
Most everyone who is a part of this fandom has come of age in the Internet era. Everything is at your fingertips, instant gratification. So, when something threatens that, it causes major concern. But as with most situations, there is a reason why things happen. The issue is to check out what those reasons are before screaming, “Off with their heads!”
What concerns me the most is the inability for some people to know all the facts first. I hold to the belief knowledge is power. The more facts you have at your disposal, the better the case you can make. But like anything, there are facts, and then there are ‘facts’. Discerning which facts are facts is the most crucial part. It may take a bit longer, but in the end, it is worth it. You want to be in the position of ‘right is might’.
As was stated in the opinion piece, the industry is moving in the direction of growing it’s control over EVERYTHING. But like anything else in life, you then strategize to go around. Whatever happens, I still believe JYJ will be fine. The reason for this is because of their talent. The guys possess the kinds of skills that can take them well beyond the borders of Asia. This is a big world out here. The rest of the world does not treat its artists the way they are treated in SK.
Being as young as the members of JYJ are, they have time on their sides. As they mature, and make mature choices, they will show the SK entertainment industry what a fallacy its idol concept is. I’m sure this won’t be intentional, but a natural progression. Seeing the burnout rate, and problems that keep cropping up from said burnout, there is no telling how bad it will get.
Where I live, over our Labor Day weekend, there will be two music icons putting forth divergent music events — Jay-Z and Bruce Springsteen. Both events will be for two days. The significance of the events is that you have two artists who span at least two generations of different music genres, but who are both still relevant, popular, and productive. They make their own rules and also play by the rules. That is what successful and creative artists do.
This is what JYJ is capable of doing.
@Xenophobia
“It seems to me that SME want to officially let JYJ know they will make it every tough for JYJ to make it back on TV.”
Yes, it does, but I hope the industry won’t be fooled by the trick. MC is not the one in charge of a program’s production, but popular MC’s might have a bargaining power over the show/program they want to host, and the amount of salary they wish to get. *sigh* This is where the further banning possibilities comes from.
Looking to a few acts that has undergone the same path as JYJ, I recall a talented singer named Younha (kyahhh… i admit she is my other k-pop fangirling crush… lol). She once feel deppressed and unsure whether she could make it back again to perform live on stage while undergoing her one-year deppresing lawsuit. Now she is free, going on a couple variety shows, performed in KBS’s “Immortal Songs”, KBS’s “Yoo Hee Yeol’s Sketcbook”, she even participated as regular contestant in a respectable music program “I am A Singer 2” broadcasted by MBC. Off couse Younha’s and JYJ’s condition isn’t exactly the same since she only fought against a small company compared to JYJ against SME, but still the background story is the same. I’m not sure whether or not Younha and her former agency decided to settle a few terms of agreement before the court’s verdicts were decided, but the court did gave the final verdict out, which is in Younha’s favor .Let’s hope for the equal treatment, off course without any compromise….
Seoulbeats just posted a new Article
Answer Me 1997 and Humanizing Sasaeng Fans – http://seoulbeats.com/2012/08/answer-me-1997-and-humanizing-sasaeng-fans/
Seriously, I think the writers for that site just post articles to get hits and drive traffic to their site.
The drama is actually an okay drama, but to downplay the seriousness of the sasaeng issue, is a public disservice.
I saw the title and it was enough to make me bypass, with the word ‘sasaeng’ in it. You confirm my suspicion it would be a waste of time.
I’m loving Answer Me 1997, but don’t think they’re doing anything to show sasaengs as normal – crazy fan girl Shi-won signed a message to HOT in her own blood this week!!! You must be right – they were looking for a story angle!!!
Hey lisan!
Yeah….that is fucked up and a complete lie. Those freaks with no proper life of their own shouldn’t be dismissed as “kids being kids”. I’m starting to dislike this show because of Shi-won. I just couldn’t believe that to win a shitty pair of jeans she was willing to lie about her father’s health that way. I mean cancer?! I was like….I’m done with you and I hope YoonJae turns gay for JoonHee and you end up alone. It was only karma when her father was actually diagnosed with cancer that made her feel bad but if it had not happened? Would she still do those things because she is a sasaeng? That is not right. I can’t even believe that an idol cast would sympathize with this crap. Is being terrorized that fun? Did I miss the memo?
I think it’s irresponsible & dangerous for the media to “normalize” this kind of behavior.
Hi JYJ fans please visit this site… this is a forum created to offer a site for JYJ fans in the diaspora to meet and discuss about JYJ. To have fun and celebrate the awesome talent that is JYJ. This is a place to encourage all fans of JYJ.
http://jyjfanforum.com/index.php
i have try to open it but i can’t….error
Admins… I think this is a good read. It is a letter to the fandom written by a Cassie. Can I post this here? http://t.co/QWr8ZrMr You can delete it if you want.
I think it needs to be spread around, If it affects just ONE PERSON, then I think it has accomplished something.
Hi, i have read that statement n i don’t like the way he/she address/remark/refer to/about JYJ fan…..
i don’t know how to explain it in better word….sorry
Me either and what with “Homin fans i know you feel betrayed and confused” hah who’s betrayed who? s/he keep asking where’s our manner and also ask to shut our mouth and but then s/he also said “Homin fans i understand you are in pain” did s/he even understand our pain, honestly i want to say the same things with cassie “Sometimes, you have to know when it is better to keep quiet than it is to speak up.”
Oh God, this so-called letter is typical of a so-called Cassie who likes to put their so-called largest, strongest, most prideful Cassiopeia fan club above everyone else. I swear I’ve come across more than one letter with this exact same tone of voice, all of which carry the same attempt of mediation and making peace but achieve nothing. Why? Because even the tone of such letter(s), first and foremost, has immediately irritated its supposedly targeted parties. If they want people to listen or at least take them seriously, they should learn to respect others and get off their high horses. “Save your comments until you’ve read, and the words have sunk in.” – just who is she to command or give order like this?
“People think we’re rabid, and antisocial. They think we can’t have an adult debate and conversation, they think we can’t accept opinions, get over people who we don’t agree with, and move on.” I’m pretty sure I’m in this to support JYJ, not to please people from other fan clubs whom I don’t even know. Not to mention her statement holds true for every single K-pop fandom out there. What makes she think we can’t have a mature serious debate or conversation? Come here and state her opinion, whatever it is. Unless one is using vulgar language or resorts to name-calling, no one will tell her to get lost.
Saying that JYJ fans don’t have manners or grown-up attitudes. Whoa, what a great way to get JYJ fans to agree with you! I wonder how old she is. How dare she make such a conclusion when JYJ has such a diverse fanbase, a big portion of which makes up of noona and ahjumma fans! From what I’ve seen, JYJ fans are pretty calm and we mostly only focus on supporting the boys and just ignore other irrelevant things or people. JYJ fans are very active and efficient with all their supporting projects as well. It annoys me greatly whenever JYJ fans’ activities are acknowledged, by media for example, there will definitely someone who cries “the power of Cassies.” Say what? >__> It’s the OT5s who can’t stop their hatred toward Homin fans and even more so to JYJ fans. Always being nosy, always having something to say about what JYJ fans do although it’s none of their business, always name-calling. Who is the immature side here? “Sometimes, you have to know when it is better to keep quiet than it is to speak up.” – practice what you preach, Cassies.
Why do I have the feeling that OT5s seem to sympathize and side with Homin fans more? Aren’t Homin fans even more aggressive in their hatred toward and spreading rumors about JYJ? Huhm, interesting!
@Angie
“”People think we’re rabid, and antisocial. They think we can’t have an adult debate and conversation, they think we can’t accept opinions, get over people who we don’t agree with, and move on.”"
She HAD to have been talking about the AllK-Pop, Soompi, 6Theory, YouTube, etc crowd, right? That statement stopped me for a minute too, until I remembered the 4 responses I just got from my post on AllK-Pop from last night regarding LSM’s ballooning personal wealth. They were ignorant, rude and it was going to be pointless responding to any of them. THOSE are the people she’s talking about and I guess that’s where she’s been hanging out all of this time and if I was her, I’d be pretty deranged by now too and sick to death of the fighting. Maybe we should send her an invitation to come here?
to those people who reading this letter… the origin of this letter was written by duckraddish… last march 29, 2011
I don’t know if I should be affected by this or not… it’s an old story… re-opened again…
I don’t see any reason reviving a dead horse in this situation…
I just better concentrate for the upcoming concert…
this is where the original copy came from… http://duckraddish.wordpress.com/
@masi
Thanks for the info. It could be that whoever posted it, thought it might be timely again. Anyhow, even if I had read it way back then, my thoughts would be the same.
madam buffie… same here… my opinion will still be the same… nothing change and it never will…
4days more to go and it’s LA concert!!!
despite having flaws in its judgmental statements, the general idea of this post is asking all of us to cut all those fanwars, which i’d wholeheartedly agree (and i think we’re not fighting that much again currently, aren’t we?)… once the lawsuit ends and jyj able to promote freely. :p
@Cincinn
I feel your need to help and have the fandom come together. But honestly, there is IMHO, a flaw in the writer’s reasoning. I don’t doubt her sincerity, because it is obvious there is much pain showing here. It is not the fans who are at fault here. Not TVXQ, not JYJ, or TVXQ2 fans. The fault lies with LSM/SME
From day one, SME knew the only way to shut down any future JYJ had was to create as much chaos, animosity, distrust, and angst as it could muster to complete the task.
Why? Because the fans would be the safety-net for JYJ. The fans would be there to offer the emotional, moral, financial support that would enable the three of them to keep their heads up, their souls intact, and their futures secured.
SM has always known that manipulating the fans is how you keep control of the profit making potential of any idol group. And keeping control of the profit is the ONLY thing this company cares about. It does not give one whit about the mental, physical, emotional stability of the artists who toil for them.
If one steps back and reviews all that took place from the time JYJ walked out the front door, until now, you will see a well orchestrated tableau. A tableau that has many parts, levels, and directions; it could resemble a maze. All of the features have contributed to what is being experienced now by the fandom. All of the fandom. I’m not going to take the time to delineate all of them, but we know what they are.
None of the fans would be in the chaotic condition they are in if it were not for SME. They can claim until the cows come home they have nothing to do with any of this. But they would be lying. Yes, I’m calling them liars. The way they could wipe away this perception is by doing this…
IF SME is not responsible for any of the blocking by all broadcast (TV, radio) outlets, print media, charts, collaboration with any producers, songwriters, distributors, sponsors, venue owners/operators, publishers, or any other entity that is associated with the music entertainment industry (Korean or Japanese), etc…
IF they sincerely want the best for JYJ, then let EVERYONE know, anything that hinders JYJ, mentally, emotionally, professionally, or personally, will not be tolerated…
IF SME cares about the fans of both groups, stop the manipulation. Denounce any group or organization that treats the group with less than the respect they deserve…call them out!
Go to all the major newspapers, put out a full page ad that denounces any efforts to sabotage JYJ’s career. State that SM would take it as a personal affront if any such sabotage takes place. Issue a public statement in writing apologizing for the hurt and pain that JYJ and fans have had to endure for these past 3 years.
End the lawsuit with some dignity and class. Pay all that JYJ are due for the years they worked their butts off for you. Let it go. Move on.
Finally, issue a personal apology to Jaejoong, Yoochun, and Junsu for all the mean, hurtful, and vicious things you have done to them over these past years, both under SME and outside of SME.
This would be the action of the missing grown-up the writer is reaching out to. The missing grown-ups are LSM/SME.
PEACE
*applause*
Me too ^^ ~~~ APPLAUSE~~~
Hi, I’m a silent reader who’s been visiting this site since it opened^^
I’ve been a fan of JYJ since January 2008 (used to be a dbsk fan)…
I’m a filipino and live in the US (new jersey)…
And my bias is…well JYJ since I just love the three of them haha…
Ok I will stop my introduction here hehe…sorry if my english is bad (even though I’ve been living here in the US for 5 years already T_T)…
Did anyone of you receive their mahalo photobook yet? I just received it today and I love it^^
It is bigger than I thought haha…
I was actually surprise when I received it because someone agency didn’t email me about it and it’s not marked as shipped in the website…so I didn’t know they shipped it already…
I just received mine and I live in the US too ^^
yeah I expected the book to be smaller but then it’s hugee
I love it!! <3
I'm surprised that it came with a dvd
going to watch it now~
@jyj4everfan
Hi
Yep, I got my copy of Mahalo yesterday. I think it’s beautiful, like every product I’ve bought of JYJ’s, & well worth the money I paid. I’ve watched the making of DVD that came with it a few times already, with much re-winding & re-playing, & with the usual big, sappy smile on my face that watching JYJ never fails to give me!
@Sapphire
Hi Sapphie – So… what the heck was all of that noise the week before last about the “shoddy job they did on the photo book and how not worth the money it was”??? Wasn’t that one of the grievances that some people who posted here were going to bring to C-jeS??
Frankly, I don’t even remember who was saying it now, but…. wild guess here……….. were they one or two-time posters and are they gone now? And now that I’m thinking about it, I wonder how the big meeting the Unhappy Ones were going to have with C-jeS went? Has anyone heard anything more about it?
@lilibaiyu
Hi Lili
I remember the names of some of the people who went all out on poor Hayato-san, who has left a comment in that post that he wasn’t involved with Mahalo at all, & the work that he does do on the 3 Voices series is voluntary. I’m so embarrassed & ashamed that he read that crap, & feel like taking a few frying pans to the peeps who jumped all over him, some quite viciously, based on their own false assumptions. It would be nice if those peeps apologized to Hayato-san, but I seriously doubt if that’s going to happen 
Yes @Somecraycray I am looking at you in particular, as it was your post that mis-led a lot of other peeps & got them all fired up too.
On a brighter note, Mahalo is really beautiful, & there’s only one thing wrong with the 30 minute making of DVD – it’s too short!! Are you getting it Lili? It’s definitely worth it.
I haven’t heard anything about those ten peeps who were going to see CJes. I don’t even know if they did end up going. I think CJes does need better lines of communication with the fans though, but I doubt if that was the right way to go about it.
@Sapphire
“I haven’t heard anything about those ten peeps who were going to see CJes. I don’t even know if they did end up going. I think CJes does need better lines of communication with the fans though, but I doubt if that was the right way to go about it.”
DARN IT, I wish I could have talked butterfliesarefree into betting with me whether or not the grievance patrol was going to end up being real, whether the photobook was crappy, etc etc and whether maybe all these people were going to disappear back into the bushes again but the woman is just too damn smart! As my friend Dr Boom would say, she was born at night but not LAST night. lol
@Lili
“DARN IT, I wish I could have talked butterfliesarefree into betting with me whether or not the grievance patrol was going to end up being real, whether the photobook was crappy, etc etc and whether maybe all these people were going to disappear back into the bushes again but the woman is just too damn smart! As my friend Dr Boom would say, she was born at night but not LAST night. lol
LOL, oh you do, do you? Well, better luck next time. Goodness knows there will be ample opportunities between now and the 12th of never (to quote Johnny Mathis).
Oh, by the way does 9:00PM at night count? That’s what I was told was my birth time.
@Sapphire
“On a brighter note, Mahalo is really beautiful, & there’s only one thing wrong with the 30 minute making of DVD – it’s too short!! Are you getting it Lili? It’s definitely worth it.”
See, here’s the thing: I know my boys by now and so, I would venture to say, do you, Sapphie. We know how much these 3 want to please and delight their faithful fans — the ones who have stuck by them all of this time and who likely will buy this photobook. Did I believe for ONE SINGLE SOLITARY MINUTE that they would allow some half-assed crappy edition to be released with their names and faces on it?? No. I did not. Not for a second did I believe that. Of course, it’s always a tough decision to go to a new comment by a new poster and say “You don’t know what you’re talking about!” when I haven’t personally seen the photobook myself. But that was my intuition, that once again we were being visited by the flying monkeys of SM. And now more than anything I’m happy to know that the photobook is as wonderful and full of depictions of the members’ joy on their holiday as I’d imagined. Enjoy!
I received my copy a few days ago. Sure there are those cut-through-the-binding pictures, but instead of whining about those few ‘flawed’ pictures, i decided to just concentrate on the PAGES and PAGES of awesomeness that followed
@Onlyjyj
” received my copy a few days ago. Sure there are those cut-through-the-binding pictures, but instead of whining about those few ‘flawed’ pictures,”
And how much do you want to bet (and BOY, could I make a lot of money on these wagers) that Jaejoong himself said “Let them be MY photographs that go into the bindings” during the assembly process which you KNOW all the guys saw and signed off on?? These promotional items are a big deal to JYJ. They are not cheap knock-offs that the guys have no control over! If they saw a test pressing of the book and it wasn’t cool, they would have said “Oh, no, I don’t think so.” This is why it was so upsetting to me that people came here and started making these assertions about the artistic integrity of our guys. Oh no! No way!
@lili
Actually it wasn’t just Jaejoong’s pics there were affected by the binding, so were Junsu and Yoochun’s. What I don’t like are some fans making this into a Jaejoong issue, I know some fans have this crazy notion that CJES is playing favorites. All this pettiness has got to stop.
@lilibaiyu
“So… what the heck was all of that noise the week before last about the “shoddy job they did on the photo book and how not worth the money it was”???”
I’m asking myself the same thing. I just finished looking through my copy and honestly, I don’t know what more do the people that complained want. There were only two pictures that almost bothered me but then I noticed that since I was looking at it in my hands I wasn’t opening the book properly. So yeah, I just opened the book a bit more and the problem was solved. One of those pictures was the one I saw online that looked like Jaejoong was completely cut out (like I said in a previous comment) but I could see him clearly. The image quality is also very good. All in all, I’d buy another photobook from them if they make it since this one was, in my opinion, one of the best photo collections I’ve seen.
@zuri
“m asking myself the same thing. I just finished looking through my copy and honestly, I don’t know what more do the people that complained want. ”
Yes, well, you know we’ve had a persistent troll problem here… And here’s the background: SM is just about to lose a really really big case in which they’ll be asked to pay a lot of money to JYJ. So, they have unleashed their sympathizers, who they have convinced that perhaps if they are forced to pay millions to JYJ, all their other acts will perhaps be forced to go by the wayside. Since Lee Soo Man has protected his wealth absolutely, quite possibly be has left the rest of the troops at SM holding the bag, aka left them to deal with the fallout of the lawsuit. All of that remains to be seen. But suffice it to say that like so many other tempests in a teapot that we have been obliged to diffuse here on JYJ3, this also just sort of dried up and went away absolutely as people here started to get their photobooks and see that, far from being “shoddy” they were, as always, wonderful.
Here’s what I was sure of, going in: JYJ care about their fans. They want the best for them. They would NEVER NEVER sign off on a less than great product. And be assured, all of them saw it and approved it beforehand. This is all their ballgame now. They are responsible, they call all the shots. NO WAY did I think that any of these comments were worth ANYTHING, any consideration. And as we see, they weren’t.
@sapphire
yeah I just got mine too, it’s wonderful!! loving all the pics in it and the translated page they included was very considerate for non korean fans ^^
@petdino
I keep going through my copy again & again. I think I’m going to have to buy some gloves so that I don’t accidentally mark the pages…. a drool bucket will probably come in handy too!
@BAF
When pigs fly, my friend, when pigs fly we will see those full page ads. Yes, the writer of the open letter to the Cassiopeia fandom did leave out quite the glaringly important part of this whole mess and that is as you said SM’s role in manipulating and stirring the pot of the fandom to satisfy its own ruthless agenda all of these many months.
Still, I have to say I like the idea of everyone calming down, stopping all the arguing, stopping the bitching and attempts at sabotage by fans and just get over it now — Just like who you like and have an end to all the fighting. Since I’m not a member of Cassiopeia and I never was I guess I don’t have a vote though.
The letter did remind me how much I appreciate it here at JYJ3 though, which has mostly remained a place for the discussion and reasonable opinion sharing that the writer says she so longs for. I wonder where she’s been hanging out? If she’s been on one of the several contentious and downright rude K-Pop sites we all know about – God help her, the poor girl must be shell-shocked by now!
So yes, I think it would be a nice idea if everyone stopped fighting and NO I don’t think SM will stand for it to happen. Manipulating the Cassies themselves into tearing apart JYJ’s all-important fanbase is a seriously fundamental part of their strategy to ruin JYJ.
I think she wrote something heartfelt but misguided. SME and all the major companies play the game. I remember that many of the older commentators here (God I’m getting nostalgic) made lots of points about how weird this devotion was. Stanning a company? Would anyone of us stan RCA, Jive, Interscope Records, Warner Bros. etc? It sounds so bizarre and yet that is exactly what happens in South Korea. Then there is the obsession with having a fandom name. This need to be labeled just because you listen to a certain group’s music. Then the completely insipid conversations about what flashstick/balloon color to bring to a concert to show support. Isn’t showing up the actual sign of support? I want to lash out and tell people to stop acting so stupid but these kinds of things have been around way before I stumbled onto kpop and they’ll stay for some time to come. I really don’t get them and I never will but I fear that with time though I’ll start to become less perceptive and I’ll start accepting this like it is normal.
@retrokim
” I remember that many of the older commentators here (God I’m getting nostalgic) made lots of points about how weird this devotion was. Stanning a company? Would anyone of us stan RCA, Jive, Interscope Records, Warner Bros. etc?”
[Geez, I think if I continue to reply to all your posts you're going to think I'm stanning YOU. lol]
Yes, butterfliesarefree and I were just talking about this very thing yesterday, it is an odd concept to us too. Since I’ve never been much of a joiner, the Organized Religion….er….no, I mean FANCLUB idea was never an attractive one for me. I still don’t get it, frankly. But I have to say, Bravo, mind control experts at SM: you guys sure do know your business.” And of course then I’d also like to say, “Now for GOD SAKES let these poor tortured little girls GO and leave them alone to snap back into reality with the rest of us, let them just like who they like, leave the rest alone and let them get back to thinking about things that really matter in their lives, over which they may have some control and which might actually be important in shaping their futures.” Because it seems to me that a whole LOT of what is going on in the Cassiopeia fandom is just not very healthy or useful.
Yeah this is just too messed up. SME just takes shameless advantage of these girls who feel neglected and lonely or….who might have been dropped in the head as babies. (I will never forgive sasaengs for the suffering they have caused JYJ but I can understand that the obsessive and toxic nature of these kpop fandoms are the reason these girls act this way)
They give them an identity. You have the official fanclub name, the official color (WTF does that have to do with the music I’ll never know) and all the fellow fans band together defending their favorites. They suffer hardships that help forge a sense of identity. The “hardships” usually come in the form of defending your idols from any scandal, percieved slight or iota of criticism no matter how honest. Then there is the countless “myths”. Yunho the father-obeying, kind-hearted “manly” dancer, Junsu the duck-butt singer, Changmin the snarky maknae, Jaejoong the androgynous 4D clutz and Yoochun the deep-voiced, piano-playing casanova. GOD FORBID should any of them not want to play the role anymore! That is who you are! Never mind that you are a 26 year old man. Come on! Don’t be a jerk and do the “Angel Xiah” pose! Come on!
I feel like a crazy person sometimes because I find that even here I can’t be 100% honest. There are just so many things wrong with all of this. The banning. Just the mindfuck that this is! An artist wants to cancel a contract under legitimate claims but in the process they are banned from TV! The only reason they can appear in a drama or an interview is because SME has no power there but if they did they would be 100% banned from TV, no exceptions. The people who act like this is normal, desirable even. Stanning a label and calling an asshat like LSM “a cute ahjusshi” *barf* The stupidity of shipping (I don’t care if it is a malexmale, malexfemale, femalexfemale pairing) but just how creepy these people are! So obsessed with the imagined lovelife of a person you don’t know! The STUPID photoshopped pictures! The delusions of grandeur, Kpop taking over the world? It all gets on my last nerve.
I’m sorry I unloaded on you like this but some people are just freaks and kpop seems to bring it out like nothing else……I need to watch videos of JJ to calm down.
@retrokim
“I’m sorry I unloaded on you like this but some people are just freaks and kpop seems to bring it out like nothing else……I need to watch videos of JJ to calm down.”
Awwwwwww….. **patting retrokim on the back** There, there….. It’ll be OK…. Deep breaths, retrokim, deep breaths…..
I know.
I know, I know, I know. Really. Yeah, it’s quite unlike anything I’ve ever experienced before either. Think of it this way: we’ve gone to Mars and met up with some of the locals. They communicate by tap-dancing and farting. (OK, I stole that line from Kurt Vonnegut.)
Since this is their turf and we’re not from around here, we just sort of have to hang back and get the lay of the land.
OK, cut to 2 years later. Personally, I’ve GOTTEN the freakin’ lay of the land and I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to keep silent another MINUTE.
Is that about right?
Well, I know, and I feel your distress and frustration. But here’s what ever-so slightly keeps me in check (and Oh, GOD, not always and not for very long and not so much that scores of angry partisans don’t hate me)
OK, here’s what I try to keep in mind: JYJ themselves, Jaejoong, Junsu and Yuchun are born and bred SK, they have grown up in this fan culture, they have become superstars of Asia because of this fan culture. They understand all the particulars of their fan culture and they have shown again and again that they WANT to keep the fans that they have won in earlier times, as members of DBSK.
They want to do, as much as possible, what they can do to keep them. The fans are the very life blood of JYJ. Without the fans, their career is OVER right now, today. So as much as we might criticize the many oddities of fan culture in SK, until the international fanbase picks up the slack and provides so much support that JYJ finally realizes that they are finally literally too big for SK, this is what we have to deal with. Wacky Cassies, the poor things addled with SM’s cult-like mind control, etc., etc., etc. As you said. That’s what we’ve got and until JYJ themselves say otherwise, that’s the deal.
Having said that: I LOVE YOU, JAEJOONG!~
@lilibaiyu
Thanks. I needed that. I just sometimes fear that I’ll start thinking of this crap as normal and that is the last thing I want.
@retrokim
I have to agree with what you said. We may be perfectly fine when there’s no official fan club’s name for all JYJ fans, but I think OT5s will go ape shit crazy if the name Cassiopeia is stripped from them or blame JYJ if the boys did give a new name to their own fandom. Cassies are so pressed about the color red to the point that it’s ridiculous. Remember the fight during Jae’s fan-meetings, ugh! C-JeS didn’t help when it made that outrageous decision to allow only red light-stick in Jae’s Taiwan FM. Seriously, these fans paid to go see JYJ or to wave light-sticks idek. I was fairly surprised that Chun’s blue ocean didn’t cause that much of a fuss. And yeah, in all Junsu’s MVs, there’re always people who moan about the missing of “cute, innocent Junsu.” Junsu works hard and is proud to introduce his new image and concept, yet these fans only want him to sing teenage songs and do angel Xiah pose for the rest of his career life. As if appearing sexy and cool in MVs would change him into an entirely different person. I wonder if they even see him in those videos with JaeChun.
You mention the nightmare that is couple shipping. It was fun at first, then it has gone very wrong when fans start to take it too seriously and infuse too much of their own fantasies and imagination into the couples they ship. I’m happy that couple shipping is almost non-existent in JYJ fandom. It makes me angry when YJ shippers call Jae names like “b*tch”, “sl*t”, say that he’s such a girl, or talk as if he couldn’t live without his Yunnie. WTF? Jaejoong dislikes being called pretty, and any man will be offended when being labeled with such names, yet to those shippers it’s alright and funny just because they’ve been DB5K fans for X number of years. They never stop harassing him and think that doing so is to show their support. Such retards! SME seems to go overboard with the shipping as well. You will see male idols practically kiss each other, do extra fan-service, or cross-dress in SMTown, and the fans feed on all of that. SME knows how to manipulate all the fangirls. No wonder JYJ were labeled as traitors when they wanted to quit because they were not happy with their working environment and underpaid, and they took their disputes to court. Something seemingly normal became distorted after being processed by SME. The list goes on.
@Angie
“And yeah, in all Junsu’s MVs, there’re always people who moan about the missing of “cute, innocent Junsu.” ”
Hi Angie, I loved your comment. You touched upon several reasons why I stay pretty far away from the Cassiopeia fandom. Many of them seem to think they own the members body and soul and it’s a life sentence. As to your quoted above… well, poor Junsu, is all I can say. He’s a healthy 26 year old male — having to continue to play the “cute and innocent” role must be really uncomfortable for him. Now his NEW image on the other hand, he really seems to like A LOT. This is the direction obviously that he wants to go in and it’s how he wants to be perceived now. Not a whole lot of “cute and innocent” there, I’m noticing. lol
So give it up, ladies of the Junsu fandom! He’s a highly skilled, talented creative artist. Fans cannot dictate what they want an artist they like to be. Sheesh!
VE Sister,
“When pigs fly, my friend, when pigs fly we will see those full page ads.”
Yes, and with lipstick on the pig as well.
Ladies, I so enjoy reading your insightful and uplifting comments, I look forward to it everyday. I think the person he/she is of the age that I think a lot of the new fans are. They are the ones I think that are not researching the reasons behind JYJ leaving SME. They are blindly following what is being repeated on twitter, YT comment section and certain sites. They are IMHO young fans who cannot have a adult conversation about JYJ, cannot state facts or their own opinions, or thoughts about JYJ. They spout the same rhetoric over and over. I posted the link so you ladies can show how it is done ie a civil discussion with fact and straight forward thoughts.
The person may not have stated all the facts, left out things, but he/she is speaking like one of the young people who often make dumb comments, and follow the fray. I remember back in the day there was a commercial running about helping young people and I think the phrase at the end was ” If it helps ONE child then that is an accomplishment” If this letter helps just ONE that is a beginning.
I do realize there will still be those knuckle heads out there who are like a dog with a bone. Those you just can’t help.
@BAF
I know you will enjoy the concert on the 30th. I so wanted to go to meet my two fav people: Junsu and you. But sadly I could not get off work for 3 days. Can I ask a favor? during 3wishes time scream to Junsu to give us a wink and blow a kiss to us fans.
Peace
The last first…from my mouth to his ears! I will try my best.
Sorry you aren’t able to make it. Would love the chance to meet you. 
As my VE Sister notes above, we are older and unaccostumed to this kind of fandom idea. Sure they existed when we came along, but especially for me, culturally this kind was a non-concept. So, I can’t identify with this type of behavior.
What infuriates me the most is, the pulling in of the fans at such early ages and mind controlling them. This just is totally unacceptable. When you have young people who are so misguided, and you use them shamefully, this borders on criminality.
To see and hear the vitriol that is spewed sometimes is like, WHOA. This does not make for a healthy mindset. These are behavior patterns that will go with them to the outside world. This is where the trouble lies. The world is not going to put up with this in the least. There are boundaries.
Of course it is not every fan, but given the massive disruption that occurs whenever a particular issue arises, it’s not hard to recognize how deep this runs.
There’s always hope that things can change. No where is it written in stone that this situation has to stay like this. Hopefully, as time passes, more normalcy can return. I’m going to keep my fingers crossed at least.
I just received my Mahalo photobook today and I live in Canada. I am a new JYJ/JJ bias fan ( < 1 year) and this is my first JYJ related product I ever bought. I paid more than $120 ( wih shipping) and I was a little concerned given all these complaints about its quality last week. Yes, there are a couple of pages with Jaejoong cut-off because of the binding and I have to press hard to open the page fully to get a better glimpse of him. However, there are many other nice pictures of Jaejoong in the book. I wanted to buy this book because I want to support JYJ and also have something tangible that captures the image of my bias. Overall, I believe this photobook can be done better but I am happy with it. ( I will be happier if I was picked to receive the signed picture of the members. haha) Anyway, for those fans who changed their minds about buying the photobook, please reconsider because i.m.o, it's still a nice book to treasure.
same with me.. I just received mine and I live in the US. to me, the amount of pics that JJ was being cut-off is not that much, imo some of them are necessary in the way that the pics are located either at the center of the book or there’s no other place to put em. I think the editor must’ve been having a hard time in choosing which and where to put those pics cause he obviously has limited space and time…
I love the book and quite satisfied that it came with a dvd
there’s some improvements that are needed but I’m happy with what I got ^^
I thought the book was really beautiful & I’m so happy I got it. Yes, there were about 5 pics of Jaejoong where his body was caught in the binding, but his face was always clear to see. After all the fuss about this issue, I was surprised & relieved to see that it wasn’t a big deal after all – at least for me. I was expecting to find pics with his face obscured by the binding.
@Sapphire My book is still on the list of *pre-order* ,KPOPTOWN didn’t send it out for me yet…Sister,keep your book in the safest place,ok,or I’ll come over there,tonight…
@MINMIN
LOL!!! I’ll share my copy with you until you get yours.
I didn’t expect them to include the translated page! it was very nice of 3voices to put it cause I don’t understand Korean.. with all the complaints people were giving, I thought Mahalo would turn out worse than my expectation
yes some of JJ’s pics were cut but I can still see his wonderful face clearly
have y’all read this? http://www.allkpop.com/2012/08/lee-soo-man-yang-hyun-suk-both-currently-have-stock-holdings-worth-over-200-billion-krw-176-million-usd-each
I wonder how the guy who got 1st place sleeps at night? is he happy now? -__-
I had to chuckle at the comments. Everyone of them is ranting on how great it is that Soo Man is so rich and wonderful. SME is all that! Take that people. Haters can just shut up because he’s so wonderful. HIS artists make more money than anyone else. Not one of those commenters could tell you how much their SM artists are worth. What is wrong with this picture?
The disconnect is AMAZING! You just have to wonder what kind of drugs these folks are on. Well, if there ever is a stock market crash in SK, a whole ton of folks are going to be sorely upset.
I know right? WTF? Who cares how much he is worth? If I am a SONE I would want to know how much SNSD is worth not that bastard. Same for the ELFS, cassies and whatever the other fools call themselves. They don’t ask. They don’t have a clue. I have to kind of laugh at this. They are so trained to think about the president as if he were indeed the artists themselves. Stupid fools.
Considering the fact that the artists at SME got, what was it, stock (600 or 800 shares approx.) worth about $22K USD? There were many more place holding numbers in LSM’s count.
Now don’t get me wrong. If I had a stock portfolio worth that much, I wouldn’t cry. But then again, I’m not a mega-kpop star bringing in millions of dollars either. But that’s okay, one day the blinders will come off and the rude awakening will set in.
Also, they are not connecting to the fact that as the largest shareholder in SME, LSM calls the shots. The CEO does not wield the power. The folks who OWN the company call the shots. So please lay-off that he’s not the CEO. Th OWNERS hire the CEO.
oh you’re kinda right… one of my kpop fan friends is a die hard SM artists’ fan and she never said anything about how much of each of the stars worth… weird……………
@BAF
“Considering the fact that the artists at SME got, what was it, stock (600 or 800 shares approx.) worth about $22K USD? There were many more place holding numbers in LSM’s count.”
Hmmm…. let’s see… $22,000 each against $178 MILLION. For the people doing all the work????? $22,000?? Oh, please…
But those shares were not given to their idols for free. They were sold for something like 40-45k Won each, that was more or less the market price at that time.
@ruber
True, they didn’t get them for free, but the point is, this was a HUGE PR move. SME fully understood, the majority of the fans would not key in on the small print.
SME is if nothing else, masterful at PR and marketing. They do this better than anyone else. I give props where they’re due. Don’t like s**t else they do, but hey, them’s the breaks.
@ruber
@BAF
Somebody who was telling me off on AllK-pop yesterday informed me that “SHINee had made $27 million dollars on their last album.” hahahahaha Can you IMAGINE??? hahahahahaha I just…. hahahahahaha Yeah, I tried to picture it, the powers-that-be at SM handing the members of SHINee a check for $27 million dollars, but I don’t know what happened…. I just couldn’t picture it.
@Lili
$27M?! No S**T! $27M smackeroonies! I’m impressed.
Wow, that is simply amazing!! Hold on for a minute…I have to finish picking myself up off the floor. Ok, I’m up now…good to go. What a sweetheart they were to inform you of this little known factoid. They didn’t by any chance tell you where ALL those sales were from did they? Is there any chance Haneto missed this? That has to be some kind of record! Inquiring minds want to know. My VE Sister, you bring out the best in them. You really do.
See, this is the problem I have with the kpop music industry. It is encouraging young people to engage in the unhealthy practice of intentional stupidity. That is just not cool. No sireee bob, it is not cool at all.
@BAF
“$27M?! No S**T! $27M smackeroonies! I’m impressed.”
hahahahahahahaha Oh, I know, it’s classic.
No, the kid…..er….. esteemed fellow poster didn’t go into a lot of detail with the actual source for the claim, the place he got his information or what type of psychedelic drug he was on, but apparently in K-Popland, all you really need to do is POST something enough times and the other kids…er……. esteemed posters will follow along. Because in K-Popland, BELONGING is everything. Being a tiny cog in the GREAT WHEEL is the thing. And parroting and repeating the received wisdom is of course very important too. This is why you and I will never be accepted into any K-Pop fandom, EVER. We have already been targeted and labeled as “Nothing But Trouble With A Capital “T.”
And personally, that’s just fine with me.
My VE Sister,
“This is why you and I will never be accepted into any K-Pop fandom, EVER. We have already been targeted and labeled as “Nothing But Trouble With A Capital “T.””
But at least I’m in good company. That makes up for everything.
@bff
I couldn’t find a reply button to your comment below.. it’s very very funny that IF the pig has that amount of stock, then he must’ve worth more than that. IF I were him and I had that kind of company with lots of “successful” stars, why would I worry about 3 men who’s unable to promote/do things freely in sk? -_- I guess we all know the answer, right
@petdino
You bring up a good point. But even though the value is only as good as each current day’s stock report, the fact remains…it’s more than any of those who toil for the company have. And you can bet your sweet bippy he has investments all over the place — diversification. My little itty bitty portfolio, and I do mean itty bitty, has a stock, a mutual fund, and a money market account.
What those intentionally uninformed SME fans don’t get is that at the end of the day, as long as the artist continues to spew money out of the ATM, the artist is useful. When the flow diminishes, out they go.
The main reason SJ began getting better attention was because there were signs SNSD were about to faint all over the place. Comatose artists don’t bring in much now do they? Then Shinee and fx began receiving better attention. Now with all this activity, why spazz over 3 artists who no longer bring in any moolah?
It’s really simple. This is personal. JYJ must pay for shedding light on the underbelly of SME. Previously, no one actually got a good clear look. That has changed. LSM is never going to forgive the guys for this transgression. This sick viper will probably go to his grave with this vendetta. Yes, he does display characteristics of a mafioso. But the funny thing is, more and more wiseguys are winding up in prison. It takes a while, but it does happen. When this does, the smile on my face will never be removed.
@BAF
“I had to chuckle at the comments. Everyone of them is ranting on how great it is that Soo Man is so rich and wonderful. SME is all that! ”
Not ALL the comments, not as of about 30 seconds ago, sis. lol Oh, there I’ve gone and done it again. Fortunately for me, I figured out recently that what I needed to do was UNCHECK the box that says “inform me of all follow-up comments.” Ahhhh, blissful ignorance. Sometimes, it just WORKS.
So each artist got shares worth around 22K but the artists had to pay 40-45 wons for each as well? Or am I not getting it? I don’t know much about this stuff.
From my understanding, and I could be wrong, it worked this way. The artists were provided the stock options in lieu of receiving income. The cost was whatever the current daily stock price was, at the time of the transaction. So yes, they paid for their stock, it wasn’t given to them. And I’m willing to bet there is a no sale clause as well. Not that this is a huge amount even adding them all together. But the company is still going to keep control of it. So, the fans who deliriously think their idols can strike it rich by selling their SM shares, have a very rude awakening coming to them.
So instead of getting paid the money they earned, they actually had to pay for shares???? Wow, just wow…. I’m speechless…
Sapphie honey, nothing this company does surprises me any more. There is method to their madness. They use, abuse, and screw over better than anyone else I’ve ever seen.
Let’s put it in this perspective…I’m using rounded numbers here…$22K x 50 employees (not sure what the exact number is, but this might be a safe one) = $1,100,000.00 USD. I think this only applied to the major artists. This is no small amount of change people. No way was SM going to ‘give’ that much money away for free.
Mummy-hen
I have to admit, that if this is true, it stuns me. Just when you think SM can’t plumb the depths of the sewers any deeper, they hit a new all time low. I’m also amazed any of the idols working in SM had the money to pay for any shares. In the 5 minutes a day they maybe get off, are they working second jobs??
@Sapphire
“So instead of getting paid the money they earned, they actually had to pay for shares???? Wow, just wow…. I’m speechless…”
I know, right? It’s looney tunes, it’s laughable that the kids (and I do mean KIDS) who just don’t want SM to be guilty then take the information and somehow turn it into “Look how generous SM is to their artists!”
It’s just like what this kid told me last night about SHINee’s $27 million payday for their last album. Now I don’t follow SHINee and I don’t have access to their sales figures (amazing that this kid does though, right?) but lets be generous of spirit here and say that even though SHINee wasn’t particularly at the top of any music charts for the months at a time it would take to generate those kinds of numbers, let’s just say they did indeed EARN $27 million. What this kid doesn’t get is that EARNING is one thing and actually BEING PAID is quite another, especially when all that cash is being sent spiraling down the SM rathole where busy accountants in the basement then begin deducting all the “expenses” re-calculating and paying SM the 96% or so profits right off the top and then splitting what’s left …er… how many guys are in SHINee – about 6? This is what SM routinely does and what they’ve always done. All of a sudden after their accountants get through massaging the figures it’s….”Awwwww, sorry boys… there’s not much of a paycheck for you this time. See you in 6 months.”
@Lili, @Sapphire
Statements like that are a clear sign, Mommy and Daddy are still paying the bills. There is no job this person goes to on a regular basis. If by some strange quirk of fate, he/she does, the employer has one seriously incompetent worker.
Look, if SuJu can’t rake in that amount, how does Shinee do it? There is a real disconnect here.
with all these craziness going on, they must be feeling really bad, cause they want to escape but can’t.. or have they been brainwashed..?
@BAF
“Look, if SuJu can’t rake in that amount, how does Shinee do it? There is a real disconnect here.”
Well, my guess is that it’s more Apocryphal Crap slyly disseminated by SM to show what big you-know-whats they have. ‘Course i could be wrong…..
@petdino
“with all these craziness going on, they must be feeling really bad, cause they want to escape but can’t.. or have they been brainwashed..?”
Yeah, no kidding. And if they complain, if they say anything, if they step out of line, they get punished. Probably by being put at the bottom of the rotation in terms of how soon they will get to do anything again for a while. In the kind of marketplace SHINee play in, they gotta be seen constantly, they gotta be constantly before the public or their popularity starts to slip away. So this is a potent threat. and now of course, SM also has the spectacle of JYJ going through hell for 2 years to gesture to if any of their other acts are crazy enough to try to get away.
Is anyone going to Junsu’s concert in New york??
I’m going but it’s kind of lonely to go alone haha…
And I’m not familiar with the subway so I’m kind of scared to ride it (alone)…I just hope I don’t get lost…
I’m really excited..I hope it’s thursday already^^
I even bought light stick hehe…
@jyj4everfan
Mummy-hen, otherwise known as Butterfliesarefree, is going & is open to meeting up with other fans who are going too. Maybe you two could join up?
Hello jyj4everfan
Sapphire is right. I am going, and there are a group of us planning on meeting before the concert. I’m coming by train, as are a few others. So for those of us who are meeting, we are gathering by the Starbucks near the LIRR section of Penn Sta. Our scheduled meet up time is 3:00PM. We’re planning on getting a bite before and hanging out.
If you want to connect with me directly, here is my email: Octavia714@hotmail.com
You did obtain a subway schedule correct? I’m sure the NYC transit authority has a map on line that details where the train lines all go. I know ours does here in Philly.
What section are you in? Those of us who are meeting are in the seated sections in the balconies. We don’t have to be concerned about being there too early to line up for the GA standing on the floor. If you are on the floor, this might be another issue for you. But contact me by email anyway. OK?
I just sent you an email^^
Got it and replied.
I sent you an email as well! Coming from DC and would love to meet up some people beforehand.
Responded. Sent you the link to the FB acct set up for the NYC concert goers.
Sorry if this is a long answer but I wanted to give a reply with decent examples to a poster here who asked last week why do pple like SM and SM artists considering the way they treat them. i cant see the post of that person myself right now but i hope they will see my reply here
I think we JYJ fans tend to like to think that SM is useless at everything. I myself criticize SM all the time but I never criticize their abilities as a record label, becuz I think that doing so would be under-estimating them. Don’t judge SM’s musical abilities based on SUJU and SNSD, but based on all artists under that label.
SM has been in the business for over 20 years but it did not start as a massive company over night. It actually started as a tiny company that no1 took any notice off or bothered with really. They had no resources, no money, and their office was in one floor at a small building. What shot them to fame was the high quality and unique music they produced combined with the level of talent of their idols. Idol groups like H.O.T, S.E.S (greatest female idol group before SNSD took over) and Shinhwa became legendary becuz they attracted the public with their unique music and incredible talent. Songs that were sung by H.O.T, Shinhwa, BoA, and TVXQ, etc were not just musically powerful, but their lyrics had a depth that no other idol group or solo idol from any other company produced. This made those songs become masterpieces that have stuck into the minds of the public. Songs like H.O.T’s Hope, Candy, and We are the world which earned an American MTV Award for Best International Video, became huge anthems and made pple finally recognize SM as a label that only produces high quality music. At that time SM was just starting out and had no support or say in the kpop industry let alone the American industry, yet the music they produced with this group was getting recognized globally.
Other amazing songs with stunning, and meaningful lyrics like BoA’s Atlantis princess and every single ballad she has released has been not short of beautiful. Then there is TVXQ with amazing songs like Rising Sun and O, both of which have probably the most political and powerful lyrics I have ever heard in kpop music. These are few lines from Rising Sun:
Useless wings
Days of ashes
I wake up from flying, stabbed by fragments of shattered dreams.
Another pitch black morning.
Everyone holds the truth,
Yet it’s hidden behind a deceptive facade.
Will I forever be questioning what’s left of my life?
Break down the thick imprisoning walls.
Press forward with courage and strength
To regain my innocence.
I’ll burn fiercely like a raging fire
And end like the radiant rays of sunset.
I’m waiting for the rising sun…
This is a creation by SM that turned heads around throughout the whole of Asia and transformed TVXQ from a cute rookie group to an artist that pple respect and admire. Not to mention all the stunning ballads that TVXQ have sung since their debut that were produced by SM like Love in the ice, Believe, and My little princess.
Then u have groups like Shinee. Jonghyun and Onew are easily the most talented vocalists of the young generation of idols. Taemin’s dancing is incredible and the other 2 are both decent singers. Most importantly their music is catchy as hell and has good meaningful lyrics.
SNSD and SUJU were not meant to be vocal groups or musical artists like the other artists under SM. LSM himself said that SUJU were meant to be and entertainment group where its members are not totally vocally talented but they do have talents in other areas that will allow them to be integrated in various forms of the entertainment business. Some of them are good dancers, others are good actors, some are good models, good DJs, good hosts, comedians or even variety show members. Their music is created as an extra activity that allows them to appear together in one place and allow their fans to support them in a united manner. The case is similar with SNSD but SNSD have more vocally talented singers like Taeyon, who is considered the best female idol vocalist in kpop, Tiffany, Jessica, and Seohyun. The rest can all hold a tune well and are amazing dancers. That’s why SM pays more attention to their music.
Sure we criticize SM for all they have done to our boys but don’t underestimate their musical abilities or their capacities. SM started from zero and built its way up using music and talented idols as its weapon, and through that those artists gained fans and became icons in kpop.
You may not like their style of music, but that doesn’t mean that others don’t either. As we have seen with EXO, Pple now trust SM that whatever group it will debut will be worth recognition and support.
I don’t know why you felt the need to defend SM & post this comment in JYJ3. Whether the people in here like SM’s idols music or not is not in question here. What we don’t like is the way SM exploits & abuses it’s idols, & cheats them out of their rightful pay, & that is what most of us question about why people support SM. If I loved an idol group that was in SM, I’d be extremely p***** off that it was their company bleeding them of the money they earned while working them til they drop & treating them like crap – the fact that SM stans don’t get this is what leaves many of us baffled. As for the deep & meaningful lyrics you tout, how much meaning can those lyrics have coming from a company that exploits & abuses the young idols in their care? As for your claim that most of us JYJ fans think SM is useless at everything, I doubt if many of us think that at all. SM has perfected what they do – unfortunately, & it’s the idols who have to pay through the nose for it, & the more successful they are, the more money they owe SM. If you love SM’s idol groups, that’s your choice & your business & hopefully no-one will attack you for it. But please don’t come to JYJ3 & preach about how wonderful SM is to a bunch of fans who know exactly how SM screwed JYJ over in the past, & is continuing to screw them over to this day. It’s tasteless, insensitive & tacky.
@Sailor JiJi
I’m sure we have all been much edified by your long telling of the praiseworthy history of SM but I have a significantly different perspective of this befouled entity. In the first place I never confuse the artist with the company they happen to be working for. All of the groups you mentioned may have as much to recommend them and be as talented as you have said. But if they had that great talent, that’s why they were discovered, signed and did what all great artists do thereafter. It’s what has happened all over the world for as long as there has been art. Artists of great stature will always find an outlet to create and be heard.
Now we come to Mr Lee Soo Man’s participation in these proceedings. I will certainly freely allow that he was able to spot talent, and being the supremely versatile and persuasive snake oil salesman that he is, he was able to entice them all into signing maximum position contracts for 13 year periods, these documents being worded in such a way that there was no possibility of any SM artist actually making any money, were they to become successful. And many did, as you have documented above. Further, there was no possible way of leaving SM once signed without bringing down the Wrath of LSM upon them. So few actually tired; the evidence is clear how difficult it was for them. We see what JYJ has been through. It’s ugly and it’s all SM’s policy to end the careers of anyone who tries to leave.
I’m assuming that you know that SM has a long history of signing groups, working them nearly to death and not paying them commensurate with what they earn, right? The SM contracts have been labeled “slave contracts” by many people familiar with contract law, including the court which later invalidated JYJ’s contract with SM. So here is why the fabled legacy of LSM and SM has no true value, no validity. It’s because they THEMSELVES don’t care about it and they never did. They care about the money they earn from exploiting their artists and needless to say their own massive egos. If they cared about their reputation and cherished their “great” legacy they would not have engaged in the terrible, illegal acts of sabotage against JYJ for the last 2 years, just for starters, just the latest batch of their continuing criminal behavior. They would not have openly flouted the law and the court’s mandates.
And on top of everything else, look how good they are at manipulating fans, creating nonsense mythology about how great they are and selling young people who just love music a line of total bullshit! And now they even have people like you doing their P.R. for them for free!
I’m sorry, but SM is a stunningly indefensible company. If they deserve ANY partial credit for their artists’ output over the years, it has been decisively buried under a tidal wave of greed, manipulation of fans, cheating their artists and lies, lies, lies about everything shameful that they do.
@sailor JiJi
LOL… Thanks for long post expain how “wonderfull ” SM
but with me
I can’t feel anyany wonderfull from the song if I know how evil SM about treat their artics like slaves, criminals, childs labors, like I can’t feel love the words from who cheat me and treat my lover’s like a crap. Music with me have to come with feeling, meaningfull, how can I love this song when i know they come from awful, bloodssukes company?
about business and sucess from SM,let me say something : yes, business mean profit : alot of companies on the world they are sucess from notthing to start , they are select talents, pay high to make pp work for them, share profit , work like the teams, care about the workers, the more company sucess, the workers got more benefit, good managerments that the company real sucess and too many out there but not every of them need to treat their employee like slaves, overwork them day and night, underpay, make high profit from blood and tears their employees, make them richer and richer from pp hard works. I have my own business, but not mean i need to become a bloodsukers, please!
HI @Sapphire @Lili…… hugs my sisters ^________^
@anva1
“Thanks for long post expain how “wonderfull ” SM but with me I can’t feel anyany wonderfull from the song if I know how evil SM about treat their artics like slaves, criminals, childs labors, like I can’t feel love the words from who cheat me and treat my lover’s like a crap. ”
I really don’t mean to be beating up on Sailor JiJi because I can certainly spot the evidence of SM’s skillful brand of indoctrination when I see it but I think I wrote what I did earlier because as a lyricist who wrote professionally for 15+ years I was really shocked that she was quoting lyrics, the work of some very talented lyricist obviously, who was also I’m sure signed to a maximum position Publishing agreement, being screwed, getting nothing for this giant hit he or she had just contributed very significantly to. And then to somehow associate this lyricist’s work with SM and Lee Soo Man….! Well, I just saw red at that point. Songwriters who are not the artists themselves have a very hard time of it because they are invisible – they seldom make enough money to even really support themselves. I am positive that SME has a large stable of great writers who get paid NEXT TO NOTHING and can’t get out of their contracts. They get to hear their songs after SM artists record them — that’s their “pay” no matter how big of a hit the record is.
I’d be interested to hear the employment experience the lyricist who Sailor JiJi quoted has had with SM except I’m sure most are deathly afraid of the consequences of speaking out. As hard as JYJ has had it with all of their fame and resources, imagine the plight of an unknown writer with no clout and no money for lawyers. As a writer myself, this whole rotten system just breaks my heart.
Don’t be hurt by the responses to your post and please don’t take this as a personal attack, but I think you’ll find a whole lot of JYJ3 members that disagree with your words and express that disagreement the best they can.
I for one, wholeheartedly “criticize” SM’s abilities as a record label. Because I for one cannot separate their financial successes from their ethical, moral and legal malpractices. They are rapidly working their way into becoming a monopoly in the entertainment industry and history has long proven that monopolies only benefit the business at the exponentially rising expense of the consumer.
I’m a sucker for mom and pop shops, local rags to riches success stories, and I have much respect for those that pull themselves up from nothing. That may have been SM’s story once upon a time, but that isn’t the case now. Now they are the big business, and instead of lending a helping hand to other companies struggling to make it or even just letting them be for whatever outcome they achieve, SM is purposely blocking and crushing any entity that has the slightest potential to be a competitor. Without competition, we get the same old song, the same old story, creativity and artistry is stagnated and replaced with a sea of shiny new faces that all have the look, feel and sound of coming from the same assembly line.
I love South Korea, it is my place of birth, and I wish for it many advancements and successes. I don’t want South Korean music to be a punch line, I don’t want people to hear a few notes of a song and immediately recognize it as Kpop and turn away in derision. I don’t want one company shaping the sound for my country. And, above all else, I don’t want South Korean teenagers giving up their rights, their autonomy, and their potential as true artists (to be more than puppets who dance what their told to dance and sing what their told to sing).
For the entertainers under SM that are of age to decide whether or not they should be in the company, I don’t understand their reasons but I wish them the best, for those entertainers who are not of age, I feel sorry for them, and I hope they make it without too many scars to their soul. As for SM the company, I don’t now, nor will I ever “trust” them in any aspect.